eBay

annuljesus · ‎12-30-2022

I have been a buy and seller on Ebay for 22 years and a relatively new Ebay user is claiming that a $950 watch that I sold to them was not received, that they received an empty watch box. I have let the user know that I have reported this to UPS and they will be starting an investigation. I have asked the buyer to file a local police report and he said that the police told him there is nothing they can do as it was likely the seller or shipping company who is responsible for the missing watch.

I am almost 100% certain that the buyer is scamming me after reading online about the "empty box" scam on Ebay. To top it off, I looked up the buyer and he has several criminal records that are public including 3rd and 6th degree larceny. I'm not even sure how to bring that to Ebay's attention or if I should confront the buyer with this information. Ebay is currently reviewing this case and I am afraid that in the end they will side with the buyer as they seem to always do.

Any help or assistant would be greatly appreciated.

gemarakop_trading · ‎01-01-2023

When shipping high value items you should insure them. In the event a buyer reports item missing you can file for reimbursement. Ive had good experience with ups insurance and bad with fedex.

good luck

josephb555 · ‎01-01-2023

You should go to the Post Office with your receipt and tracking number. You then see if you can find out the weight of the package before it was shipped. You then weight an empty box of the same size. If there is a difference in weight then you have proof to show Ebay that the box was full when you sent it out.

marnotom! · ‎01-01-2023

@rugerskick wrote:

While ebay desires more high dollar item sellers, at the same time they defeat what they want by not backing sellers when buyer fraud occurs.

I'm wondering how you envision eBay "backing" sellers when unprovable fraud occurs, which is what we're looking at here. eBay does a pretty good job of backing sellers when provable fraud occurs (i.e. claims of item not received, claims of unauthorized credit card use). It's when it's not cut and dried that the "backing" doesn't work so well. I would suggest that it's the fault of credit card issuers and the current chargeback system, which eBay seems to live in fear of. The seller in this situation likely wouldn't prevail in the event of a chargeback, so any "backing" eBay could provide would likely be weak.

@rugerskick wrote:

The only safe option for sellers is to sell those high dollar value items in places other than ebay.

If those venues facilitate credit card payments, I can't see them being any safer. Perhaps the solution is to bring back the escrow system that eBay had in its early days.

fashunu4eeuh · ‎01-01-2023

“Dear buyer,

I am shocked and dismayed that your package was rifled in transit. As you are probably aware, tampering with the mail system is a serious federal crime, and will be investigated by the US Postal Inspectors (even tho the carrier was UPS). In addition to the postal inspectors, i have also made a report to the FBI and your local police. (Copies and case numbers will follow.)

If you could please hold on to the packaging as evidence, your assistance with the authorities’ investigation into this matter is most appreciated. No doubt they will need your testimony.

I promise to get to the bottom of this unfortunate occurrence, and thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Regretfully, your seller”

Something along these lines is what i would send the buyer. Never make accusations of wrong-doing to a buyer. That is a sure-fire way to lose all control of the situation. There will be zero cooperation or communication after accusations are made, let alone the bad feedback that could follow. Even if there is ample evidence of fraud on the buyer’s behalf, it does not serve your interests to alienate him at this point, or tip your hand that you are “on” to him.

Fraudsters hate getting on the legal suthorities’ radar. If the scammer realizes you are not going to fold up but instead file all these reports, and doggedly pursue the matter, he might “find” the watch miraculously. Or slink back into the darkness and go in search of easier prey.

Unfortunately, you will be forced to refund, but make him earn it. Innocent buyers will be grateful for your efforts, while scammers will squirm under the eyes of the authorities.

You can make most reports online. You have already contacted your carrier. Also make a theft report to the Postal Inspectors (https://www.uspis.gov/report ), as well as the FBi Internet Crime Complaint Center ( at ic3.gov ). Be sure to keep case numbers and/or copies of each report.

Sorry this happened to you.

allen1853 · ‎01-01-2023

YOU can contact their local police department and file your own report. You are the victim and it is your belief buyer stole the item. They may not do anything with this report but if enough people did, this these scammers would eventually be caught. Also continue with UPS emphasizing the weight issue. Not sure how they work since I never use them. SURELY you insured the parcel with them if the value was $1000.

annuljesus · ‎01-06-2023

This situation is really unbelievable. So Ebay is essentially letting the world know that if you order any item that does not need to be authenticated (apparently <$2000) then you can simply claim that the item was not in the box and a week later, you will receive your refund and get to keep the item for free! This is the best deal on the internet!

Ebay closed the case and refunded the buyer. Ebayer closed my appeal stating that I should seek an investigation with UPS as they honor their 100% Buyer Guarantee.

UPS investigation outcome is that the evidence was not tampered with at all and delivered to the recipient. They have gone to obtain the packaging as part of their investigation and have not been able to pick it up. They are stating that they do not provide insurance claims unless they have proof that the package was tampered with or lost in transit, because receipt sent photos of having received the package, they will not. The UPS manager also looked up the recipient's name and states that they have criminal activity noted Google. The weight of the package was unchanged from the time of shipping to delivery. Ebay did not care about ANY of that.

ittybitnot · ‎01-06-2023

then you can simply claim that the item was not in the box and a week later, you will receive your refund and get to keep the item for free! This is the best deal on the internet!

@annuljesus

It sure is! Just about anything for sale on eBay can be had for free at the seller's expense with the right kind of claim. The "empty box" scenario is just one of the ways. The 'empty box' is an "item not described" issue, and eBay provides NO seller protection for items not as described.

Generally speaking, delivery or signature confirmation is helpful when there is an "item not received" claim by the buyer. Your buyer did not claim INR. The only thing I can think of that could save your monetary loss in this instance is if your buyer was outside the US, and had used a freight forwarder to receive the package.

For a long time, it was a tried and true way for an international buyer who used a forwarding service to get free merchandise and a full refund from the seller's proceeds. Now, it is not quite so easy for them to do so, as long as the seller is informed about the unpublished process for recompense.

stefvik · ‎01-06-2023

There is no more Negative Feedback for buyers on eBay, so scammers can easily conceal their traces. You can report a buyer to eBay, but nothing is public, and I doubt ebay does anything about it

stefvik · ‎01-06-2023

This is terrible so sorry for you. I lost a $110 watch I sold to a buyer who made a false claim for not as described. Ebay CS agents on the phone were confusing and misleading _don't worry, ebay has your back".
I ended up with ebay refunding the unresponsive buyer with 1 feedback, and overlook my communication and evidence.

Did the buyer who scammed you have a lot of feedback? In recent years ebay did away with the possibility of giving negative feedback to a buyer, so it is a catch 22 situation.

Ebay should have some liability in these disputes, and at least do some investigations. But the burden is all on the sellers. It is time for me to consider other marketplaces, like FB.

kiimayo-0 · ‎11-11-2023

If the weight of the box is visible, you can use that against them!

kh-leslie · ‎11-11-2023

Hi everyone,

Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread HERE if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

Thank you for understanding.