Buyer claims I sent an empty envelope.

[mckillelea]

Hi all!  

    Hoping for advice.  I sent a package out three weeks ago.  It was not a large nor a heavy package with little value.  I sent it through USPS and got tracking.  Recently the buyer has come forth and accused me a sending an empty package.  I asked if there was visible tampering and they stated it did not appear to be tampered with.  They had spent several weeks on vacation, which is why they had just come around to addressing this issue.  I issued a refund but I feel like I have been scammed.  I know for certain I did not send and empty package, and the receipt from the post office shows my envelope had weight.  The buyer had a 100% rating, which is why I refunded them.  Is this a common scam?  How can I protect myself from this going forward?  Is it worth filing a claim through eBay?

[div_style]

That horse is long gone.  Sorry that happened.  Next time let the buyer file a claim before you do antything.

[victorjunkman55]

As said, you should have let buyer open claim. All buyers have 100% feedback, It's the only thing they can get. Never refund on buyers word, let them make the first move and open case first.  Good Luck to you.

[sidemouse]

If a buyer ever claims that with me (and assuming I fully recall the package itself and I know for a fact that it had the correct item in it when it left) I immediately file a claim with the Post Office.

We may or may not even inform the buyer of what we did, as was said if they're just sending messages there's little to fear as far as ebay but still I file that claim.

Now whether the USPS can do anything about it or not, but it sends the message that we don't play around and we take the buyer's complaint seriously because there's a good chance the buyer will find out about it one way or the other.

The USPS takes these claims seriously as well.

Haven't had any problems of this nature in some time.

[luckythewinner]

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Is this a common scam?

It is a well-known scam. I have never seen any objective data about how common it is. 

How can I protect myself from this going forward?

How do you protect yourself from voluntarily refunding buyers? Easy - don't voluntarily refund them. But you cannot protect yourself from 'Not As Described" claims, so if your buyer had filed one you almost certainly have lost and been forced to refund. 

Is it worth filing a claim through eBay?

I am not aware of any mechanism for sellers to file claims with ebay because the buyer talked the seller into a voluntary refund. 

[mam98031]

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@mckillelea wrote:

Hi all!  

    Hoping for advice.  I sent a package out three weeks ago.  It was not a large nor a heavy package with little value.  I sent it through USPS and got tracking.  Recently the buyer has come forth and accused me a sending an empty package.  I asked if there was visible tampering and they stated it did not appear to be tampered with.  They had spent several weeks on vacation, which is why they had just come around to addressing this issue.  I issued a refund but I feel like I have been scammed.  I know for certain I did not send and empty package, and the receipt from the post office shows my envelope had weight.  The buyer had a 100% rating, which is why I refunded them.  Is this a common scam?  How can I protect myself from this going forward?  Is it worth filing a claim through eBay?

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I'm sorry you lost your money.  Personally I would not have refunded them.  If it had been several weeks and if they had a legitimate issue, they could have filed a claim if they wanted to through PP.  But since they didn't, it is more likely they just wanted the product at your expense.

BTW  ALL BUYERS without exception have 100% ratings / Feedback.  That is the ONLY thing sellers can leave for buyers, so no matter how bad they treat sellers, they will ALWAYS have 100% positive FB.

[retrose1]

So the buyer went on vacation for weeks and let all their mail pile up on the porch, with no protections whatsoever, to get rifled through and stolen?  Yeah, I'd refund that (inset eyeroll emoji here).

When a buyer tells me that the package is empty, I tell them that gosh, I am so sorry, I will call the PO and start the rfled/stolen package claim with them so they can start investigating the theft by their employees.  And if they could let me know what is the name of their local branch, I will call and talk to their postmaster and delivery person about the theft of their item out of the package going to their address.

I have never had to make those calls as the item is magically found.

All buyers have 100%, what you want to do is take a look at the feedback buyer leaves for others to get a better send of the story. 

And block your buyer since they now know that your wallet is open and they can pick it.

[aramintaca]

If that ever happens again tell the buyer that you will be filing a report with USPS. It happened to me AS THE BUYER and let me tell you USPS takes this very seriously. I opened a case of mail theft and worked with my PO to stop this, at least for me. An honest buyer will be freaking out and offer any and all help to find the problem. If they don't want to work with you or the PO, that's a red flag. But you didn't get that far with them. Learn from this. You could try opening a case with USPS now just to get the buyer on their radar. Don't tell them, just do it and let it be a surprise. Might break their bad habit fast, and it sounds like it isn't their first time doing this. And put that buyer on your blocked list.

[emerald40]

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@mckillelea wrote:

Hi all!  

    Hoping for advice.  I sent a package out three weeks ago.  It was not a large nor a heavy package with little value.  I sent it through USPS and got tracking.  Recently the buyer has come forth and accused me a sending an empty package.  I asked if there was visible tampering and they stated it did not appear to be tampered with.  They had spent several weeks on vacation, which is why they had just come around to addressing this issue.  I issued a refund but I feel like I have been scammed.  I know for certain I did not send and empty package, and the receipt from the post office shows my envelope had weight.  The buyer had a 100% rating, which is why I refunded them.  Is this a common scam?  How can I protect myself from this going forward?  Is it worth filing a claim through eBay?

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Did you ask this buyer where this package was for the weeks she was on vacation?

And you do know all buyers have 100% feedback.  Go to "feedback left for others" to get a better picture of their buying history.

You could call ebay and put this person on their radar.  It will not help you, but it could start a discussion if this is a habit of theirs.

[missjen831]

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@luckythewinner wrote:

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Is this a common scam?

It is a well-known scam. I have never seen any objective data about how common it is. 

How can I protect myself from this going forward?

How do you protect yourself from voluntarily refunding buyers? Easy - don't voluntarily refund them. But you cannot protect yourself from 'Not As Described" claims, so if your buyer had filed one you almost certainly have lost and been forced to refund. 

Is it worth filing a claim through eBay?

I am not aware of any mechanism for sellers to file claims with ebay because the buyer talked the seller into a voluntary refund. 

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It surprises me how often I see that statement these days (for the seller to file a claim with ebay). I see it suggested all the time on certain social media platforms that allow sales and I'm seeing it pop up here more and more only its sellers asking how to file a claim. I'm 99% sellers can't file a claim against a buyer. But that other 1% says....maybe all of those people know something I don't? It goes for paypal too--see people suggesting to file claims with paypal against the buyer. Suely I am totally ignorant some huge ebay and paypal policy that covers sellers and allows them to file a claim against the buyer?

[a_c_green]

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@missjen316 wrote:

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I am not aware of any mechanism for sellers to file claims with ebay because the buyer talked the seller into a voluntary refund. 

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Is it worth filing a claim through eBay?

It surprises me how often I see that statement these days (for the seller to file a claim with ebay). I see it suggested all the time on certain social media platforms that allow sales and I'm seeing it pop up here more and more only its sellers asking how to file a claim. 

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Ditto. My general response is, "A claim for what, exactly?" Mopery with Intent to Gawk?

I would put "filing a claim" in the same category as "making a formal complaint": very official-sounding phrases that often turn out to have no meaning when someone actually tries to do something in that direction, although they do feel good when you type them, and can sometimes be used as a weapon against your adversary (e.g. bad seller or bad buyer) if they have no more knowledge of actual dispute procedures than you do.

I don't mean to sound unsympathetic toward the OP here, but if you don't want to refund voluntarily, then don't. At least prod the buyer through an actual refund request before doing so, as some who try doing this with every seller may decide to walk away at that point, rather than put themselves on the eBay record as making yet another empty-box refund claim.

[castlemagicmemories]

Don't immediately refund.  You can send a message stating that you will be more than happy to contact their Postmaster and let them know there is an issue there.  They may be contacting you for more information and to obtain the envelope that arrived empty.  

Then take it from there.  

This may result in magic!  They may mysteriously disappear, and you never hear from them again, or equally mysteriously, the item may suddenly appear!

Always remember all buyers have 100% feedback.  That is all they can get.  

[missjen831]

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@a_c_green wrote:

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It surprises me how often I see that statement these days (for the seller to file a claim with ebay). I see it suggested all the time on certain social media platforms that allow sales and I'm seeing it pop up here more and more only its sellers asking how to file a claim. 

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Ditto. My general response is, "A claim for what, exactly?" Mopery with Intent to Gawk?

I would put "filing a claim" in the same category as "making a formal complaint": very official-sounding phrases that often turn out to have no meaning when someone actually tries to do something in that direction, although they do feel good when you type them, and can sometimes be used as a weapon against your adversary (e.g. bad seller or bad buyer) if they have no more knowledge of actual dispute procedures than you do.

I don't mean to sound unsympathetic toward the OP here, but if you don't want to refund voluntarily, then don't. At least prod the buyer through an actual refund request before doing so, as some who try doing this with every seller may decide to walk away at that point, rather than put themselves on the eBay record as making yet another empty-box refund claim.

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Ah that makes sense! I tend to read statements and take them too literally so when I see any mention of a claim being filed against the buyer, I automatically think of a case and that the case is to get the money back from the buyer or to somehow hold them responsible the same way a seller would be. You would think people would simply say "report the buyer" but "file a claim" could and obviously does have the same meaning as that 🙂

[shoptalkid]

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@mckillelea wrote:

Hi all!  

    Hoping for advice.  I sent a package out three weeks ago.  It was not a large nor a heavy package with little value.  I sent it through USPS and got tracking.  Recently the buyer has come forth and accused me a sending an empty package.  I asked if there was visible tampering and they stated it did not appear to be tampered with.  They had spent several weeks on vacation, which is why they had just come around to addressing this issue.  I issued a refund but I feel like I have been scammed.  I know for certain I did not send and empty package, and the receipt from the post office shows my envelope had weight.  The buyer had a 100% rating, which is why I refunded them.  Is this a common scam?  How can I protect myself from this going forward?  Is it worth filing a claim through eBay?

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This sounds exactly what happened to me a year or so ago.   I assured the buyer that I don't mail empty packages and asked if it had been tampered with.  They said "no, you sent me air, i want a refund" .   They didn't open a case,  so I didn't refund.  They threatened me with the usual "i'll take my business elsewhere" and they were put on my by BBL.    Who needs customers like that?  99% are very pleasant, so I can live without the other 1%. 

[couldabeenworse]

I would have voluntarily refunded eventually, knowing that I would end up refunding involuntarily anyway.  But first I would have asked the buyer for a picture of the package to make sure he wasn't confusing me with another seller, and would have filed a USPS insurance claim if applicable. 

I would also put the buyer on my Blocked Bidder list until I felt confident she was telling the truth.