Buyer claims $1000 pen is a fake, but wants to keep it for a discount

[stephenstephens]

Another day, another scam to deal with on eBay. I sold a $1000 luxury Montblanc pen to a buyer who seemed eager to get it. They sent me a message claiming they called Montblanc, and customer service told them the serial number is not authentic, and that similar fakes sell for $275 (LOL), so please send them a refund for the difference. That set off my alarm bells -- I called Montblanc myself, and they laughed it off and told me they NEVER provide serial confirmation over the phone, the pens have to be mailed into them to be taken apart for authentication. So I give the buyer this info, and they respond insistent that it's true, and they still want the discount!

Because of all the scams, lately I've been filming all my pricier orders, mainly to compare against fraudulent returns. The item was sent out registered mail and declared with the USPS. But not even that serves as a deterrent for this crook lady. If you were me, what would you do? It seems she really wants to keep it, but doesn't want to pay for it. Who would pay $275 for a fake, I see em on eBay for $30! Part of me wants to ignore her request and see where it goes, another part of me wants to send her a lowkey warning that fraudulent eBay disputes lead to police reports being filed with her personal information in it...

And this lady ain't poor either, she lives in a wealthy area, and a quick Google of her number shows she runs a professional photography business. I guess lots DO get rich through theft.

[dentalrprtek2012]

Report the buyer like Ebay is going to do anything. 

[stephenstephens]

For the heck of it I called eBay to hear what they'd say, and while the agent was laughing at how ridiculous this was and that she "gets it," in the same breath she told me, "It's your business. You decide how to run your business." Basically there's nothing eBay will do until or unless there's a dispute. There's no guidance to proactively prevent fraud, it's dealt with only after the fact. They won't even take action against fraudulent buyers with a track record -- if they wanted, they could easily see the pattern of returns & refunds with buyers like this and match them up with repeated seller complaints.

eBay claims they do take action against buyers, but our countless reports disappear into the abyss with that dreaded "we can't tell you what action we take" message. I have never heard of a buyer reprimanded for their fraudulent actions.

[this*old*attic]

"Dear Buyer,

I'm sorry you are not satisfied with your purchase. Please return for refund."

And stop Scooby sleuthing the woman. Or engaging. Time is money.

[ittybitnot]

 "It's your business. You decide how to run your business." 

@stephenstephens 

No, eBay is going to decide as soon as a claim is made. 

[this*old*attic]

I actually feel partials have their place - just not here, it's ridiculous.

I have purchased glasses and bowls, and had one or more arrive broken. Usually newer sellers who just didn't know better.

I took pics in each case and requested the appropriate partial.

I would have been **bleep** if they'd required a full return, and many buyers feel the same way.

In reverse, I've had one or two buyers email with a pic and a problem. And offered a cobbler repair or dry cleaning or seamstress repair in return.

My fault. And meanwhile they had shopped, fallen in love, paid, and excitedly waited.... only to get some level of a problem.

I think the standard "No partials, return for refund" fails to acknowledge this.

BUT, not on this one. LOL, who buys an original but willingly keeps a fake? If that didn't bother her she would have shopped for a repro in the first place.

[m60driver]

Another day another scam, eh.  Then why were you selling a $1,000 pen?  The potential loss of this pen will cost you all the profit from your recent sales and likely much of the profit from future sales.   You should be removing just about every listing you have of over $100.    Go track down your previous sales, find a statistical calculator online, and then determine your (1) median sale and (2) the standard deviation. Then never list anything beyond two standard deviations from your median sale, and be wary as you approach that number.

[monster-deals]

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@stephenstephens wrote:

Because of all the scams, lately I've been filming all my pricier orders

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You can stop doing that. No one will ever look at it.

[me298530]

If you were me, what would you do?

I would tell them to return it for a full refund.

The problem is, if the buyer is scamming, then it is almost certain that they will return a fake pen and not the one you sent, or send you back something else entirely, or, file a dispute with their CC. 

I believe they will file a CC charge-back, after all, if they are willing to lie to you, they would lie to their bank.

Sorry, I don't see anything good for you in this situation. Either the bank will reverse charges, or ebay will rule in favor of the scammer if they file a not as described claim, either way you will lose the money and the pen. Registered mail, signature confirmation, and videos will not save you.

[duffy4444]

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@stephenstephens wrote:

... If you were me, what would you do? It seems she really wants to keep it, but doesn't want to pay for it....

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    Many replies from seasoned sellers here have given you good advice on what to do in the immediate situation.

    I don't want to sound like Robert Raincloud, but to answer your question, I would have prevented the entire situation from happening in the first place.

   Never, Ever sell and ship a higher-value item here, that your business model is not prepared to lose, and potentially your payment as well on a forced refund or cc chargeback even months down the road. Scams are happening here like flies to a dead rabbit, and eBay is not protecting sellers from many, if not most of them.

   On a higher-value item such as this, use a reputable auction house, or a different venue where you can get paid in cash and not open up a can of worms by shipping the item out of your control.

Cheers, Duffy

[simba6]

Could be  a lose lose for the seller. Wonder if they would receive the real one back or a fake in it's place. eBay is just not set up for high value transactions.

Dang, that's an expensive pen.

[katzrul15]

You're actually wrong -they do.  We had a buyer end up NARU after our report and their investigation.

[dentalrprtek2012]

That is exactly right. Customer service always acts like they understand and how wrong it is sometimes they bring out the "I sell on ebay myself and i know how it feels it has happened to me" what a bunch of **bleep**. They just play the game until claim is made  and the instant refund

[dentalrprtek2012]

How did I know someone would come along and lay this all on the seller. Cheerleaders.

[fab_finds4u]

You should never say to them i would hate to know I sold a fake to anyone. To say that is saying you didn't know it was fake or you wouldn't have sold it to anyone.  So no, don't say that.

A person that collects $1,000 Montblanc pens would not want to own a counterfeit pen.  You know they're just trying to get the pen cheaper. 

[gjs_16]

It is probably best to tell the buyer to return for refund please.

Personally that would have been my first answer, but I know the temptation to want to "save the sale" or keep from having to issue a refund can be awful strong.

You might additionally change your returns policy to "accept free returns" since it makes small difference anyway, I found it actually reduces returns when I accept them...