Bleeding us dry

[mczombies]

Does anyone here feel like they are being taken advantage of? Not in a small way, like when your best friend always wants to borrow your clothes, or when your boyfriend always insists on picking the movie--but in a serious and life changing way? I sit here now thinking of all the injustices that I continue to experience as a seller here--that seemingly endless feeling of dread because I never know what is going to happen next--am I going to be able to pay my bills in a month? Or will eBay come up with a new scheme to freeze me out? Who will the "chosen" ones be six months from now? I am pondering the callous way that my livelihood and financial well being have been treated by this company.

In truth, I am not a valued trading partner, I am a servant--always running from punishment, trying desperately to stay one step ahead--grateful for the few crumbs that are tossed my way. I have no rights--I can't even control the items that I post here, as eBay will change them--without warning or permission--any time they feel like it.  And instead of learning how to become a better seller, I have instead only gotten more ignorant--as my ability to glean understanding, research, and expand my knowledge has been essentially cut off--with many of the useful and educational features of the site made unavailable to me now.  What is left is only the constant stress and pressure that they try to instill in us--and they certainly do seem to love keeping us all worrying about the next defect, bad feedback, Final Value Fee Penalization, or the next false SNAD case.  Nothing instills more fear and dread in me than reading a sentence from eBay that begins with "In order to help sellers...."  And I can't help but feel that, in some way, there is an even darker underlying agenda--rather than just the simple scheme of keeping the stock holders happy.

Whether the indignities imposed upon sellers are by design, or stem from pure ignorance and apathy, it makes no difference--the imbalance of control, power, and financial reward here, the clear favoritism shown by eBay to some, but not all sellers, and the increased intrusions into our listings, stores, and bank accounts, has made selling here unbearable.  With sellers losing more autonomy daily, we have essentially become the assistant managers in our own stores. Not what any of us had in mind, I'm sure, when we set out to start our own businesses. 

I just want to know--how much more money is going to be pilfered from our pockets--when is it going to be enough? I am in utter disbelief at the audacity and gall eBay has--pressuring us to do these promoted listings. There is a reminder at the bottom of your listing page that you see every time you list an item, and under every single one of my listings in bright GREEN it says that the listing is "eligible for promoted listings." No kidding eBay--just in case I wasn't sure, thanks for writing it 950 times for me, in case I forgot.

And I am certainly reminded as I look through the items that are for sale. There they are--thousands upon thousands, if not millions of promoted listings all over the place.  And all I can think to myself is--just like when everyone gets a trophy, promoted listings cease to be interesting or a draw for buyers when everyone has them. Then we have the sellers who offer "free" returns with their Top Rated Plus beside their listings, and for the sellers who really bend over backwards--well, they get a quicker shipping time--isn't that nice? We all use the same services, but for some reason my estimated delivery time has gone from four days to SEVEN, and last night it was NINE (and that is shipping to MYSELF--who knows what a buyer in California is seeing) and right alongside of my listings are listings from other sellers quoting four days still.  Right before the holidays--isn't that just wonderful? I called eBay, and of course I was told that there was nothing wrong, that I'm still in the Guaranteed Delivery Program--and that my listings ARE showing up as guaranteed--they are just guaranteed for a week from now. Um--isn't that little green estimated delivery banner, that shows that I ship FAST, and meant to instill confidence in the buyer, what I gave up selling multiple items to one buyer for? I've lost a ton of sales because I can't send an invoice--in truth, forcing buyers to "Buy it now" has been detrimental to my bottom line on many occasions. Buyers just don't feel confident that I will either A. Refund them AFTER they purchase,  after they've paid all the shipping up front, or B. They think that I am full of it and trying to rip them off in some way because other sellers have been able to send them invoices, no problem.  I don't blame them a bit--I am exactly like that too--I want to know before I pay what the discount will be for combined shipping--and I want it in writing--I totally see their point. Why am I even in the Guaranteed Delivery Program? Why did I go through the trouble? So that now eBay can decide, once again, that it just isn't good enough for them? That program hasn't even been in effect for very long, and already they are tweaking it, or making it irrelevant?

Every day it is something new. Every. Single. Day. There is a new glitch or page change, or information that you were previously able to view that is no longer available.  How is it that they have SO much time that they can change things every day, yet last week THREE of my listings from 2017 mysteriously popped up in my store? I thought they were so worried about buyer satisfaction? Well, someone buying something that was sold in 2017 would surely cause just a tad bit of dissatisfaction. You think somebody could take the time to fix that? I mean, its only been happening for years now.

I cannot believe how much of our ability to use the site has disappeared. We can't look at our individual star ratings anymore, we can't see what other buyers or sellers have purchased, and we can't even access our OWN listings after a couple of months. I can't buy from some of my favorite sellers anymore because all of my purchases are GONE--and what is even worse is that I can't even LOOK for those sellers on eBay anymore because you CAN'T find a seller by their name anymore. What could possibly be the reasoning behind that? The only reason I can see for all those changes was to discourage repeat buyers for the small sellers. Every single one of those changes led to nothing but decreased sales for the smaller sellers. But why would they want to do that?

I was thinking the other day that they must be getting ready to charge, like Worthpoint, for knowledge about product prices. Didn't we used to get six months or a year's worth of prices in the Advanced search? And didn't there used to be a button that let us "Search the Description" in the advanced search? Like the button underneath the regular search? Why is it all of the sudden such a big deal to see what sold? Or to find a seller you like? Is there even a reason, or is eBay just closing down our access to information in an effort to make us concentrate on what they want us to be looking at? Like the 950 lines of bright green on my screen urging me give them more money?

All I know is that I am working WAY longer hours and making about half the money I made two years ago. Between losing my 20% FVF discount, the INSANE shipping increases at the Post Office (which now they just reach right in your account and TAKE what they THINK you owe them for short shipping).  I just got one the other day for almost five dollars, although when I have my packages weighed at the PO I am never short. What can I even do? eBay has made it **bleep** near impossible to access any information. They didn't even put what transaction I had made the "mistake" on--not even the DATE--and by the time I look everything up, go through the hassle of trying to navigate my way through Paypal AND eBay just to figure out what sale it was, well, by then I will have probably eaten up way more than 5 dollars worth of time. And who knows what kind of a hassle it will be to fight it--and I suppose that is what they are counting on. They tell us enough, and keep us just smart enough to do the basics, but let us be ignorant of how to help and protect ourselves.

Where is the respect? What right does the Post Office have to just stick their hands into our accounts and take money without asking us first? I'm not upset about the five bucks, but I AM upset about the fact that I wasn't asked or alerted first--on eBay or Paypal--I don't know if they send an email--I don't check mine because there are always 500 emails from eBay in there for any and every little listing change or sale I make--I can't wade through all that clogged mess. But why would eBay allow them to just take our money? Maybe it's because eBay is reaping its own rewards by either taking a percentage of what the Post Office re-coups, or maybe its from withholding some of what should be our "shipping discount?" I never believed it before, but honestly--do you really think a company that has gotten so ridiculously greedy, and so calloused towards its sellers WOULDN'T do such a thing?

And now we all have to worry about the new Tax changes. Another dent in our ever-shrinking incomes. I live in Pennsylvania--it is one of the poorest, most disadvantaged states I have ever lived in, and I've lived in a lot of them. So why would PA choose to tax an already suffering and poverty stricken populace? Oh, and also--we don't have Economy shipping here--no ground shipping whatsoever. I just can't understand what the reasoning is for that--we could certainly use it. Is the goal here to widen the divide between the rich and the poor? Essentially wiping out the middle class--making us a population of only masters and slaves? Royalty and serfs? 

We are essentially being nickled and dimed right into poverty.  There are so many different hands in my pot, that there isn't enough left to feed my own family anymore. Everyone I know lives paycheck to paycheck--and most are college grads. How has this happened? Well, let's take eBay CEO's and stock holders Vs. the "little" sellers on the ground, you know, the ones actually making things happen. How could the CEO of eBay possible understand what a difference 5% makes to us little people? How could he even have a concept of what an increase of 65 cents in shipping could do to our businesses? He's shoveling millions at the already uber-wealthy executives. Taking a few dollars here, skimming a couple there, taking away our discounts and incentives with no warning and no explanation--spread across all the sellers on the site, we're talking some serious cash.  He is looking at millions daily--while we are counting pennies.

Every time I turn around it seems I am assaulted with eBay demanding that I give either them or the buyers more of my hard earned profit--and it is not only irritating, but its also really scary. How can they not understand how slim the profit margins are for so many of their sellers? Do they not understand how difficult THEY have made it to sell on their platform? I waste more time just trying to figure out what the heck they are up to, than I spend listing. I haven't even fully recovered from losing my 20% discount, and already there they are with their hands out wanting more.  It's the reverse of Robin Hood--robbing the poor to pay the rich--and it's sickening, quite honestly. They JUST gave themselves, essentially a HUGE raise, with millions of sellers who lost their 20% discount on final value fees. Wouldn't you think that the millions (billions?) that they JUST scooped up might be enough to satisfy them for at least a little while? I'm stunned by the greed of this company--just floored. 

This is nothing new though--throughout history, and especially before the fall of most great civilizations there has been class distinction, and a huge disparity between the have's and have-not's.  But what is becoming increasingly bothersome to me is the brazen entitlement of the eBay leaders to simply take what they want--without notification or permission--and even more troubling is that they granted access to an outside entity, the Post Office, to also grab what they want from our tills. What's next? Are they going to allow the IRS or hospitals to collect our debts from our accounts? What in the world can we expect when eBay takes over as the payment provider--I'm seriously going to have nightmares tonight.

To me, it shows a serious lack of consideration for our privacy, and no regard for our boundaries. And much like how the peasants were treated--kept ignorant, living hand to mouth, always made aware of the fact that their livelihood and well being depended upon being granted favor by the noble class--we too have somehow slipped into the status of being invisible--disposable, for the most part. We are tolerated as long as we are useful, but we are not relevant or considered essential to the grand plan.  Which leads me to believe that there are going to be many more fingers tugging at our pockets in the future.

The sheer lack of respect and the refusal to take any of our objections, or even appeals for fairer conditions, or even just a level playing field--well, that says to me that the leaders of this company are above listening to the complaints of the common man. To their eventual and inevitable demise.  Don't get me wrong, I'm sure eBay will manage to hang in there somehow--but there are going to be many who will fail and fall in the process--not just the small sellers, although there will be plenty of us reduced to road kill--but the real failures here are the leaders--those who were given guardianship over millions of people's livelihood's, and tasked with commanding the ship effectively, not steering it into the rocks. 

When this is all said and done, many of those men will be looked upon--not as innovators and trailblazers, who not only succeeded in their careers, but who were also conscientious shepherds of the many families financial futures that were entrusted to them--but instead as heedless blunderers--known only for their unbendible adherence to visionless, poorly thought out plots and schemes. They will be remembered simply for their reckless negligence--men who believed blindly in the conviction that the few deserve to profit, despite the suffering of the many. 

[coolections]

@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures

When someone post on a message board  with a daily problems and excuses for lack of sales it is obvious they need help or they would not be posting.  We are here to help you if choose to accept it. Conspiracies and blamming others don't do anyone any good.

[v7bbn_0]

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@coolections wrote:

@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures

When someone post on a message board  with a daily problems and excuses for lack of sales it is obvious they need help or they would not be posting.  We are here to help you if choose to accept it. Conspiracies and blamming others don't do anyone any good.

---

I have said it before...

It is much easier to come here and complain than it is to get down and dirty and work on actually fixing the problem. We can't fix "ebay," we can't even fix another seller's problem(s) but we can... The one thing we have full control over is our own listings, that we can do something about.

[thegardeningworld]

They have destroyed both my business's on here after 14 years of being a faithful to ebay on everything and they decided now they do not want certain sellers like those with dropship products which we had on our sports ebay store. They actually told us on the phone they are shadow banning many people with dropship items because they are going to eventually get rid of all them but in the meantime they are not telling people this making people think it is something they are doing wrong. Thanks to a decent ebay high value rep he told us what they are doing because he thought it was horrible what they are doing to us and others. We made over 400K a year in sales for 13 years and now because ebay is flagging dropship items we are lucky to sell one item a day with $1 profit a day. We are now out of business on our sports ebay account and are in the process of losing our home now but ebay does not care but they will care very soon because when i lose my home and my family goes hungry ebay is going to pay dearly. All you out there selling dropship items and see your sales have become next to nothing it is because ebay has flagged you and those are facts. We had a high value rep and a rep from Vero tell us that on 3 seperate calls. It took over 3 months to get it out of them and we have it recorded. Ebay is going to pay one way or another especially if i lose my home. I have had enough.

[premium-audio-tubes]

Greed one word sums ebay up

[abfabvintage]

In general: agree about the ignore button (but not directed at current posters here).

[patd3283]

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@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures wrote:

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People have every right in this country to make an honest living at the career of their choice and have every right to be unhappy that this right is being taken away from us....and even more so when others support the loss of that right and their ability to do what they choose as a career and to make a living .

You need to look at the Bill of Rights, again.  I don't remember it saying you have a right to a career, especially one of your choice.  Go back to making buggy whips.  Where does it say 'choice of career', or to own a car or to have health insurance or to withhold taxes, etc.  You are only entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

We make our own choices, some wise, some not so much.  They are NOT rights.

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

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@patd3283 wrote:

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@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures wrote:

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People have every right in this country to make an honest living at the career of their choice and have every right to be unhappy that this right is being taken away from us....and even more so when others support the loss of that right and their ability to do what they choose as a career and to make a living .

You need to look at the Bill of Rights, again.  I don't remember it saying you have a right to a career, especially one of your choice.  Go back to making buggy whips.  Where does it say 'choice of career', or to own a car or to have health insurance or to withhold taxes, etc.  You are only entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

We make our own choices, some wise, some not so much.  They are NOT rights.

---

I am sorry but then you don't know your rights as well as you think...or the meaning of those right.

It is kinda disheartening that so many people have no idea what such things are anymore. But then again it doesn't only apply this...same occurs when reading ebay policies too and many other things.

[kh-vince]

Hello everyone,

This thread is getting a bit heated.  Please remember that it’s fine to disagree with others, but discussion should always remain courteous and respectful.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

I am also quite amazed at how things keep get added in that were never once said..Right to a car?? Really??
How many cars were there in 1789/91 since "you are referencing" the Constitution / Bill of Rights??
I can help you with that too...NONE... not one single car. BTW...You are over 100 years off time line wise from when the first car was even built.
Just sayin' 🙂
Again rather disheartening.

[mczombies]

Hi there--I appreciate the support, and I especially appreciate the fact that you read my entire post before responding. 

It will do no good to argue with those who insist that "if we don't like it, we can just go away." They don't see or accept that the constant fleecing of their income, their loss of rights, or of access to information, is merely an attempt by the powers that be to rob us blind. Much like the frog that stays in the pot until he is boiled to death--they are content to swim in the warm water right now.

My post was intended for those who are aware enough to realize that what is happening to us is wrong--not just on eBay even, it has become the norm everywhere for the wealthy to increase their riches by any possible means, regardless of who it hurts.  

And you are correct--I did not ask for help. I was merely stating my opinions--and yes, maybe I was complaining, about the current situation here. As is my right--I'm not sure why anyone would think that I don't have the right to complain here--but they are wrong. I certainly have the right to express my opinions here--that is, until eBay shuts down this thread. 

Now that this post has received a warning from a mod. I assume it will only be a matter of time before they shut it down--unless the arguing stops--much like what happened to my last controversial post "Continue to bite the hands that feed you." Which still is being read, but unfortunately cannot be responded to anymore. 

So I would ask that you not take the "bait" from those that would seek to entice you into a heated argument. As you said, we both know the score--and unfortunately I have learned that your chances of making others change their viewpoint here, are slim to none. Let them proclaim that "everything is fine" and "it's up to you to deal with whatever comes your way." Some people prefer to blame everyone, even if that includes themselves, but who is really at fault--a no-win system put into place designed to steal from us a large percentage of what we work so hard for. Yet that is their right--and if that helps them sleep at night, then who are we to argue that they are wrong?

However, there will always be that group of people who will not be led blindly to slaughter, and who will not simply just lay down and be walked over, and who will not accept seeing their livelihoods stolen from them--and for what? So that the CEO's and Presidents of these monopolizing corporations can summer in the Hamptons? While we are lucky to be able to afford health care? NO way--I'm not a socialist by any means, but there is a serious imbalance in the system when millions are taken from one group--simply to benefit a few. And that was the point of my post. Thank you for reading it--and for understanding where I was coming from.  Just let the detractors state their peace--it must do them some amount of good--they aren't ready to have their bubbles popped yet--and be grateful that you are one of the few who still have eyes to see what is really going on here. I know that no matter how angry I get--at least I am not walking around blindly repeating to myself, "everything is fine."

[18704d]

"Let them proclaim that "everything is fine" and "it's up to you to deal with whatever comes your way."

However, there will always be that group of people who will not be led blindly to slaughter, and who will not simply just lay down and be walked over, and who will not accept seeing their livelihoods stolen from them.."
----------

Respectfully, I think it's important to note
that eBay isn't divided 50 / 50 ..
by those who are totally being victimized,
and those who are simpletons and fools who haven't yet got, what's coming to them.

eBay works for many, if not the vast majority of buyers and sellers.

I'm sorry it's not working for you.

I'm sorry it's not working for many others too.

It's working totally fine for me.  Both as a buyer and a seller.

And many of us who are doing well here... still would like to contribute, and offer advice to those who aren't doing well.

You don't have to agree with our well-intended advice.

Hopefully you'll at least study it.  I myself am still learning by reading other threads here.

If not, perhaps other lurkers can benefit from the advice and comments here.

I believe all of us mean well.

Thanks,

Lynn

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

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@mczombies wrote:

Hi there--I appreciate the support, and I especially appreciate the fact that you read my entire post before responding. 

It will do no good to argue with those who insist that "if we don't like it, we can just go away." They don't see or accept that the constant fleecing of their income, their loss of rights, or of access to information, is merely an attempt by the powers that be to rob us blind. Much like the frog that stays in the pot until he is boiled to death--they are content to swim in the warm water right now.

My post was intended for those who are aware enough to realize that what is happening to us is wrong--not just on eBay even, it has become the norm everywhere for the wealthy to increase their riches by any possible means, regardless of who it hurts.  

And you are correct--I did not ask for help. I was merely stating my opinions--and yes, maybe I was complaining, about the current situation here. As is my right--I'm not sure why anyone would think that I don't have the right to complain here--but they are wrong. I certainly have the right to express my opinions here--that is, until eBay shuts down this thread. 

Now that this post has received a warning from a mod. I assume it will only be a matter of time before they shut it down--unless the arguing stops--much like what happened to my last controversial post "Continue to bite the hands that feed you." Which still is being read, but unfortunately cannot be responded to anymore. 

So I would ask that you not take the "bait" from those that would seek to entice you into a heated argument. As you said, we both know the score--and unfortunately I have learned that your chances of making others change their viewpoint here, are slim to none. Let them proclaim that "everything is fine" and "it's up to you to deal with whatever comes your way." Some people prefer to blame everyone, even if that includes themselves, but who is really at fault--a no-win system put into place designed to steal from us a large percentage of what we work so hard for. Yet that is their right--and if that helps them sleep at night, then who are we to argue that they are wrong?

However, there will always be that group of people who will not be led blindly to slaughter, and who will not simply just lay down and be walked over, and who will not accept seeing their livelihoods stolen from them--and for what? So that the CEO's and Presidents of these monopolizing corporations can summer in the Hamptons? While we are lucky to be able to afford health care? NO way--I'm not a socialist by any means, but there is a serious imbalance in the system when millions are taken from one group--simply to benefit a few. And that was the point of my post. Thank you for reading it--and for understanding where I was coming from.  Just let the detractors state their peace--it must do them some amount of good--they aren't ready to have their bubbles popped yet--and be grateful that you are one of the few who still have eyes to see what is really going on here. I know that no matter how angry I get--at least I am not walking around blindly repeating to myself, "everything is fine."

---

I am currently watching the anti trust issues going on with Amazon. That could be very pivotal in how things will go foward in the future....from whenever that gets going. But it is an interesting thing to keep up with. I am also happy to see countries/gov't are taking a stance on this and attempting to correct a wrong and support sellers for a change as well as our markets and and our incomes etc. It also goes to show such things are not imagined by those speaking about them.
While some others ignore how our markets and the market values of our items on these sites are being destroyed and WHY it does have a trickle down effect and is hurting our economies overall as well.
These issues are much bigger than most fathom.
And while Amazon is the target...itis because they are the largest and ebay and the other sites know the writing is on the wall with that.

[mczombies]

"Let them proclaim that "everything is fine" and "it's up to you to deal with whatever comes your way." 

However, there will always be that group of people who will not be led blindly to slaughter, and who will not simply just lay down and be walked over, and who will not accept seeing their livelihoods stolen from them.."
----------

Respectfully, I think it's important to note
that eBay isn't divided 50 / 50 ..
by those who are totally being victimized,
and those who are simpletons and fools who haven't yet got, what's coming to them.

eBay works for many, if not the vast majority of buyers and sellers.

I'm sorry it's not working for you.

I'm sorry it's not working for many others too.

It's working totally fine for me.  Both as a buyer and a seller.

And many of us who are doing well here... still would like to contribute, and offer advice to those who aren't doing well.

You don't have to agree with our well-intended advice.

Hopefully you'll at least study it.  I myself am still learning by reading other threads here.

If not, perhaps other lurkers can benefit from the advice and comments here.

I believe all of us mean well.

****************************************

HI there--I think that it is important to note that I never implied a percentage of division, nor did I call anyone a simpleton. But there is an overwhelming percentage of the population who are content to go on day-to day living as though they are being treated fairly, when in fact, all that they are working for is being slowly stripped away from them. And that doesn't just go for eBay-that goes way beyond this selling platform.

I put forth a theory that there seems to be this agenda to increase the riches of the wealthiest, while taking from the middle class and the poor. I didn't imply that the fools haven't yet gotten what is coming to them--simply because its already happened--everyone here is dealing with the losses--whether or not they choose to acknowledge it. Whether or not they simply move on, shrug their shoulders and say, "whatever." It is happening. Now, whether it bothers people like it bothers me--well, obviously we can see that it doesn't. But it does upset some people--and those people when they read my thread--they understood exactly where I was coming from. You aren't bothered--OK fine--but that still doesn't mean that the things I stated aren't happening. And it also doesn't mean that just because you accept them, that I implied that you were a fool. 

Also--to be honest with you--I make tons of money on eBay. I would be considered quite successful here, if you want to know that truth of the matter. However, that doesn't change the fact that my income has suffered tremendously with these new changes, and I am also very resentful of the fact that I cannot access important information anymore. I HATE being kept ignorant--although I do recognize that many don't mind at all. Again--that is their right. I am quite sure that many people are not bothered by the loss of transparency--but I am--and that is why I wrote my thread.

Also--I have said MANY times how appreciative I am of this forum--and as someone who enjoys learning and wants to know everything that is happening here, for the most part so that I can protect myself, I am certainly not disagreeing with you about the validity of your advice, nor the good intentions of the frequent posters that are committed to helping here. I am very sorry if you took my responses or my post in general to mean anything more than what it was intentioned to mean. My main idea was very simple, and perhaps it was lost in the large volume of words--however, I enjoy writing, and I felt that all those words were necessary to get my point across. My post was simply meant to state that the greed and fleecing of our incomes has gotten out of control. That's it--in a nutshell. You don't agree--that's fine.

However, all these allusions to me calling or implying that people are simpletons or fools--that never happened. And it wouldn't ever happen because I don't feel that way.  Your statement about me not agreeing with your well-intentioned advice--that also is irrelevant to my post. I never asked for advice, and I certainly would never disagree with the fact that there are many well intentioned posters here helping others--simply out of the kindness of their hearts. And that is fantastic, there should be no need for you to defend that, as I never took issue with that aspect of this forum in the first place.

What I wrote was in no way designed to be an attack on posters here, nor was it meant to give you any personal offense. I am not sure why it does, however, let me be clear--if my post was an attack on anyone, it was clearly an attack on our leaders. Leaders who have continued to take more of our incomes, take more of our control out of our hands, keep us ignorant, and who have essentially (in my opinion) done a horrible job in their stewardship of this company. Especially for the small sellers here. That's it--and there is nothing personal that is directed at you or any other poster here involved in it. Please understand where my anger and contempt are directed--not anywhere towards you--not even close.

[barneyarne]

Spot on!!!!!

[password9019]

tldnr