Are impressions organic or manipulated?

[movieman630]

I looked at a chart of the past few months with my impressions and what I see is shocking. 

I update my existing listings frequently.  For the past 6 months I've been updating my listings using PL's and I've been setting the rate at .01% higher than the "suggested rate". 

My question is this.  If ebay is using PL's to show your listings to people and I'm rewarding ebay with a higher than their "suggested rate" wouldn't you think that the impressions should be going UP not DOWN?

I'd like to know what's going on.  This is not right.  I've been working so hard to keep my store updated and running.  I have a new baby born in March.  3 kids to feed now.  I need my business to be allowed to grow, NOT SHRINK!

Is this manipulation to try and get people to use their PL Advanced?  If so, it's morally and ethically wrong.  If I'm using PL's and giving ebay upwards of 13% more in fees I should see an increase in sales, not a decrease with 13% more fees!

Here's the image:

Impressions going down despite 13% PL rates on most of my items added during this same period.

[fbusoni]

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@movieman630 wrote

If ebay is using PL's to show your listings to people and I'm rewarding ebay with a higher than their "suggested rate" wouldn't you think that the impressions should be going UP not DOWN?

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Only if buyers are actually looking at and deciding whether to purchase your items.   When I do shop here, I never click on promoted listings because I assume that the listing in question is overpriced to begin with.   And a quick comparison will often validate said assumption.   

If there is a decline in interest, for whatever reason, in the items that you are selling, is it not conceivable that impressions would go down, whether the listings are promoted or not?

Meantime, why would eBay do anything that would prevent a positive cash flow for eBay?  

[fbusoni]

"You can have the cheapest price, you can have higher ad investment, and eBay will STILL cut off your sales at the same exact number every day. "

Would you be so kind as to explain to me why eBay would do anything to inhibit sales, since doing so cuts into eBay's revenue stream?  

I should hasten to add that in 25 years of selling I have never paid eBay a dime to promote my listings.  I am also TR Plus, which I have found to be enormously helpful in accelerating my sales.  I am content as a seller, and do not concern myself with analyzing impressions, etc., because I do not feel the need to so.  Thanks and regards

[vultaros201]

July is typically a slow month for me and I am wondering if the new ad structure is making things worse. Sales have tanked about 30% from last month(not surprising by yearly trends) but unit sold compared to last year same period has tanked by 30%(concerning). My listing compared to last year are up compared to prior year but traffic is down. 

Ebay is still my bread & butter, but the trends are forcing me off platform to other sites to make up the difference in volume. 

[blacktopautoparts]

Glad you posted this here. There are certain individuals and we know who you are that continue the parade that peoples inventory is the issue or the sellers are doing something wrong every single time. That kind of talk needs to stop. There is some very strange things that are going on in the backend, and whatever it is, its not working. Then add how screwy the economy has gotten, so add that in the mix with how eBay just keeps changing so many things that they should probably leave alone.

I've been hounded for months and months to get on to off site ads. After how abysmal things have been and getting a $300 credit to do so, I gave it a chance. Do you know that even with me bumping up the amount a bit past what they are suggesting, we have only had "1", yes, "1" off site sale in a matter of 6 days. For the amount of items that we have, and the kind of sales we have made in the past, this is wild. eBay has gone down a path that they should never have with off site ads, because it proves it is nothing but a money grab at the end of the day.

Promoted listings can be good or bad depending on who you talk to, but if we need to use them that is fine. But do not introduce store and offsite ads that do not work, let alone how broken the reporting is on the basic promoted listings as zamo has proven so many times over the years. I asked the ads growth advisor for data on the offsite ads and even promoted listings for our category, and I get the answer that they can't access that or produce it for us. How can you get people onboard with any of this if you can't provide data to your sellers.

When I find out that I am one of the few in my category promoting as aggressively as I have been and I know what my rates are at, but now we are seeing rates at 19-20% for eBay Motors. I'm like come on, who in their right mind is promoting this high eBay, when I've been told my many people at eBay that not many are promoting as high as we are. I've heard from others on how eBay is just taking the numbers from your selling account on sales and other factors into the algorithm and they are pre-manufacturing these numbers, meaning they aren't even showing real promoted listing numbers. I can believe it at the end of the day because I have done comparisons with other sellers that sell the same exact items which also have a part number attached and our advertising rates are different on the same exact items.

[redlinear]

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@fbusoni wrote:

"You can have the cheapest price, you can have higher ad investment, and eBay will STILL cut off your sales at the same exact number every day. "

Would you be so kind as to explain to me why eBay would do anything to inhibit sales, since doing so cuts into eBay's revenue stream?  

I should hasten to add that in 25 years of selling I have never paid eBay a dime to promote my listings.  I am also TR Plus, which I have found to be enormously helpful in accelerating my sales.  I am content as a seller, and do not concern myself with analyzing impressions, etc., because I do not feel the need to so.  Thanks and regards

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eBay is not stopping sales. 
Either intentionally or inadvertently, they are making sure everybody gets seen. 
If you deserve to be on that 1st page of results, you'll only get there sporadically.  
If you don't deserve to be there, you'll still be there as much as the next seller.
There's a word for something run like this. To the point of everybody being equal.

 I have enough inventory that I have no problem being BY FAR the cheapest.
 I can spend the time with much of my inventory that I can be BY FAR the highest quality...and the cheapest
 I've got the feedback, the numbers, the reputation, and fast/on time shipping record.
Yet none of that matters any more. 
I can list 300 1995 Tacoma parts and use every tool at my disposal.  And you can take a new account and bumble your way through listing the same 300 with higher prices, cruddy pics, no description, poor quality.
    We'll sell about the same amount in about the same amount of time.  
Standard business cut throat practices that worked in the past simply no longer work...because eBay won't let it work.
Due to Best Match, Due to promotion, Due to where search pulls it's results from, Due to allowing sellers to MASSIVE keyword spam with no policing of the site, Due to Sort and Filter not doing as stated, AND...due to eBay flat out trying to hide many direct match results....apparently in an attempt to cover/hide listings away from where they should show up?
Due to any single, and/or all those factors, Search results are manipulated. 
And from anybody that's done some research, it's not hard to see that search results are manipulated to spread the wealth.
Yep, there's a word for that and it's not capitalism.

The quickest way to double your sales is to have two seller ID's. 

[redlinear]

@blacktopautoparts 
@zamo-zuan 
   I can promote standard and see an increase in sales quickly.  Yet my monthly average remains same as before.  Starts out appearing to help, then tapers off to normal.  
  I can offsite promote and the same thing happens.
  BUT, if I end either of those promotions, I see an immediate drop in sales. Below what was normal before I started promoting.  And monthly average begins do drop.
  If you ever start promoting, don't stop and don't lower the percentage. 

[fbusoni]

Do you know that even with me bumping up the amount a bit past what they are suggesting, we have only had "1", yes, "1" off site sale in a matter of 6 days. 

I am trying to understand what the complaints are about.   You are selling auto parts, and you are top rated plus.

I too have been hounded for months with the same $300 credit you referred to.  But because I am, like you, TR Plus, eBay is already promoting my items on Google.   I refuse to pay for any advertising because I do not think that a plethora of ads is remotely a substitute for a good price.

Put another way, advertising something that is priced too high is a non-starter.

You are paying for ads, yet they are not working. 

Put aside for the moment organic vs. non-organic, all the fancy charts that eBay allows us to make (none of which I have ever used in 25 years of selling). 

If ads don't work, then logic dictates that you stop paying for them. 

Have you experimented with lowering your prices so that they might be more appealing to buyers?  

I am not being sarcastic.   My experience is that buyers search by price.  Ads are worthless if the price of something is perceived by the buyer to be too high.

I slashed the prices of all my books by between 10% and 35% and have sold several since doing so.  Till then, I had dozens of people just "watching" my items.   

One guy immediately bought a book when he was alerted that the price had dropped a whopping 99 cents.  

If I am completely missing the point of your post, please let me know.  

[redlinear]

@fbusoni 
  Search by price???   

Myself,  @zamo-zuan  and @blacktopautoparts  can pick any of our items (such as Cummins Pushrods).
I have a set of those been listed at $27.50 for seems like EVER.
Do your sorts and filters and switch to sold.   Plenty of sets have been sold for more, way more, than $27.50..recently
   So, either nobody searches for the deal, or nobody can find the deal.
We both know the former isn't true.
So, that leaves the latter...
     Buyers are simply not being shown the whole picture.  Even if they ask for it. 

[fbusoni]

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@redlinear wrote:

@fbusoni 
  Search by price???   

Myself,  @zamo-zuan  and @blacktopautoparts  can pick any of our items (such as Cummins Pushrods).
I have a set of those been listed at $27.50 for seems like EVER.
Do your sorts and filters and switch to sold.   Plenty of sets have been sold for more, way more, than $27.50..recently
   So, either nobody searches for the deal, or nobody can find the deal.
We both know the former isn't true.
So, that leaves the latter...
     Buyers are simply not being shown the whole picture.  Even if they ask for it. 

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Yes, I meant highest price with shipping, versus lowest price with shipping. 

With the blue highlighted above, I know understand what the issue is.  

Thanks for explaining it.   regards 

[blacktopautoparts]

Yup, you have it right @redlinear with that. There are times where when I search an item to see what it has sold at so I can adjust some prices or if our listers have placed the correct price, and I see one seller have sold the same item for $30-40 more. While there are many other sellers that are $30-40 less. I can't say that I am not also guilty of having some items be a bit overpriced these days as we know, the larger inventory you have, it does take a bit longer to update.

I think a lot of times people are not searching for the best prices, are just buying what the search through promoted listings from Google, Yahoo, and other search engines leads them to and they make the purchase. Then the issue comes about is that you get eBay displaying after the sale ads and people then start up some of the cancelations. For those that come to eBay and do a search, those people I say good luck to them, because the search is so fundamentally broken. You search on a specific item with refined keywords and the search will bring up other items that are not related.

Lately another thing I have noticed more often than not is where we will go anywhere from 2-5 hours in between sales. For the items that we have and priced fairly right, this should not be happening and never happened in the past. Then this past year, we started noticing this wild trend. This is the kind of stuff that has you scratching your head.

[fbusoni]

There's a word for something run like this. To the point of everybody being equal.

Is it a three letter acronym?  One that has been in the news lately?

[redlinear]

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@blacktopautoparts wrote:

Yup, you have it right @redlinear with that. There are times where when I search an item to see what it has sold at so I can adjust some prices or if our listers have placed the correct price, and I see one seller have sold the same item for $30-40 more. While there are many other sellers that are $30-40 less. I can't say that I am not also guilty of having some items be a bit overpriced these days as we know, the larger inventory you have, it does take a bit longer to update.

I think a lot of times people are not searching for the best prices, are just buying what the search through promoted listings from Google, Yahoo, and other search engines leads them to and they make the purchase. Then the issue comes about is that you get eBay displaying after the sale ads and people then start up some of the cancelations. For those that come to eBay and do a search, those people I say good luck to them, because the search is so fundamentally broken. You search on a specific item with refined keywords and the search will bring up other items that are not related.

Lately another thing I have noticed more often than not is where we will go anywhere from 2-5 hours in between sales. For the items that we have and priced fairly right, this should not be happening and never happened in the past. Then this past year, we started noticing this wild trend. This is the kind of stuff that has you scratching your head.

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I think buyers just get tired of looking.   
They are not going to page two no matter what.
They try to find the best deal and buy it.  Then cancel a few minutes later because they saw a better deal as they were leaving.
Or they were going to buy your item, but clicked on one of the adds IN your listing to see what it was about, then another, then another.   Now they've forgotten which one they initially wanted, or don't know how to go back to it...and end up buying one just to be done with it.

I've stopped being the cheapest.  I now run a normal search and whatever the lowest price I see, I match it or top it.  eBay hides the cheapest stuff and most shoppers don't know how to get there.  

[penny_sioux]

i mean there's other variables like the general economy, seasonality of the item, other sellers going into your space and undercutting you by a dollar or promoting at a high % than you.  the last two are harder to prove but easier to rationalize.  i also wonder if late shipping and all those secret seller metrics affect what traffic you are given as well.  

[penny_sioux]

i feel like this is true.  i don't quite understand it, but once you start PL then you're a slave to it.  i can also see my impression traffic is like 70%+ promoted but clicks are 70%+ organic, and yet 70%+ of sales are charged as promoted.  so how does that make sense when most of my clicks are organic (you gotta click on the thing to buy it, right?) but don't remotely correlate to organic sales if the theory is they are charged a PL surcharge

[zamo-zuan]

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@redlinear wrote:

@blacktopautoparts 
@zamo-zuan 
   I can promote standard and see an increase in sales quickly.  Yet my monthly average remains same as before.  Starts out appearing to help, then tapers off to normal.  
  I can offsite promote and the same thing happens.
  BUT, if I end either of those promotions, I see an immediate drop in sales. Below what was normal before I started promoting.  And monthly average begins do drop.
  If you ever start promoting, don't stop and don't lower the percentage. 

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That is another flaw in the system. Promotions start without proper traffic and it takes time to gain momentum.

What this means, is if you EXPERIMENT with your promotions, you must prepare for a loss. Then if you notice things aren't working and go to EXACTLY what you had before, the traffic does NOT return to where it was prior!

Even touching promotions results in PERMANENT loss of traffic. Making it risky to mess with them.

To make it worse, not only promoted traffic drops, but ORGANIC drops as well: 

That promo was temporarily lowered, and due to plummetting, it was returned to EXACTLY what it was before. 

This defies the definition of organic traffic (which should not change at all from promotions). But here we are. And this is something that ALL eBay sellers should be alarmed and upset by.

Back to promo standard, there is a substantial drop if you're below a certain amount (as you can see in the pic above). But as long as you reach that minimum investment? You're "on" and that's the best you can do. 

Further investment beyond that will do as you say, it'll make things LOOK like it's improving, but it all rebalances. 

We've tested extensively, since Feb of 2023. Not only is the site facing loads of tech issues that haven't been fixed, but nothing seems to raise the bar anymore. Not investment in promos, not cheaper prices, not ship time, not anything. 

And the issue can't be more blatant than what you see in ORGANIC IMPRESSIONS in the above screenshot. There is no circumstance that organic traffic should decrease with promotion investment. NONE. It shouldn't be possible.

This means one of two possibilities:

1) Organic traffic is not truly organic at all, and is also paid traffic.

2) The entire traffic page is smoke and mirrors.

Based on evidence from eBay, either could be true. We can see without a doubt that organic traffic is not truly "unpaid traffic" as it is defined as. But based on their flubs, we can also see that the traffic page "rebalances" and organic views magically turn in to promoted views, and their changes to the traffic page have also exposed that at the very least "clicks" are CALCULATED/EXTRAPOLATED and not actually counted.