04-06-2019 10:06 AM
Recently we just sold an expensive laptop on here, trust me we know the risks but we thought we took every bit of precaution but I guess that was not enough. So we sell the laptop and ship it promptly (with DIRECT SIGNATURE REQUIRED). Three days after its delivered we get a chargeback notice from PayPal stating that the buyer opened up an "unauthorized charge" claim with their bank. When we called PayPal the gentlemen over the phone was super nice and was totally grieving with us and seemed to genuinely feel bad, he said since its unauthorized and that we followed protocol by shipping the package promptly that we should be good and if the chargeback is ruled in the customer's favor by their bank that PayPal will take the hit. Though here is the issue, the package was rerouted to an address nearly 2 hours away from the buyer (yes the scammer was able to convince FedEx to reroute it despite direct signature requirement). At first we thought the original owner of the eBay account committed the fraud but its a lady that owns a business and she seemed very eager to help us find out who did this.
The problem here is we're very afraid PayPal will screw us over and tell us that since the package was rerouted that it will screw with the the whole "seller protection" program, We had one PayPal rep even tell us this but another told us to not to worry that since the package was delivered somewhere close to the buyer that it can still help us out in our case. The original owner of the eBay account has her business address as the shipping address to where the laptop was originally shipped to so we believe that the original account owner is telling the truth by using the logic of "who would commit fraud using their business name". Anyways, we got the address of where the laptop ended up at from FedEx, we got the phone number and name of the person who lives at that address and even called them, they answered, when they found out we were calling to confront about the frauded merchandise they started franticly yelling that they have nothing to do with this and that they do not know what we are talking about and kept hanging up, yes, it was very suspicious and obvious.
Just need some insight on how fellow sellers would handle something like this, I've already put a tip to CrimeStoppers in the scammer's jurisdiction and the original owner of the eBay account we sold the laptop to stated that she's going to fill out a police report. All this and honestly, I don't think the scammer is willing to just ship the item back, talking to him on the phone he sounds like your average American, meaning this isn't no nigerian scammer, the scammer is domestic. We even told the scammer and so did the original owner of the eBay account (we shared the scammer's number with her) that the police will be contacted and this doesn't seem to phase them, they probably think it was just some sort of "scare tactic" but this isn't, we are honestly considering filling out the police report online in the next day or so on our end the original eBayer told us she already did it on her end.
Any advice will be helpful. Thank you.
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04-06-2019 05:00 PM
@famo_famo_5 wrote:
A helpful tip, save your shipping receipt! On the receipt it showed where the item was addressed to go to, don't know if this is what helped us the most but we did send that over to PayPal to prove to them that our full intention was to ship to the address PayPal/eBay provided to us. Its scary though that despite DIRECT SIGNATURE requirement the conman was able to convince FedEx to redirect the package.
When you get an unauthorized use claim PayPal has a standard procedure for response. Give them the tracking number that shows you shipped to the zip code on the payment transaction details Ship To address.
That's it.
Anything beyond that, such as your notice of redirect, doesn't matter. Just give them the original tracking.
The really helpful hint is for all sellers to read both eBay's and PayPal's seller protection policies. The details on what you need to be covered are spelled out pretty clearly in PayPal's SPP.
04-06-2019 10:09 AM
04-06-2019 10:15 AM
"unauthorized charge" claim with their bank
Paypal's user agreement has required PROOF OF SHIPPING to the address they provide. This proof need not be online visible, and proof of delivery is of no consequence.
Granted, PayPal may well try to weasel out of this due to the rerouting, but review the PayPal protection and have it ready should that happen.
04-06-2019 10:42 AM
Did the "buyer" file a police report as promised and get back to you?
04-06-2019 10:43 AM
04-06-2019 11:01 AM
As another poster mentioned PayPal only requires proof of shipping to the payment address so you should be covered.
04-06-2019 11:16 AM
I'm just interested to know how the person who rerouted it got hold of the tracking number to do so (if they were neither the sender nor the original receiver)
I was thinking the same thing. Two possibilities come to mind:
the seller inadvertently gave out the number to a person in eBay messages that was NOT the buyer
the buyer is lying
04-06-2019 12:44 PM
chargebacks are pretty easy to win on PayPal. all you need to do is show them that you shipped to the address provided.
no need to prove delivery
04-06-2019 01:04 PM
@dbmm-media wrote:chargebacks are pretty easy to win on PayPal. all you need to do is show them that you shipped to the address provided.
no need to prove delivery
I thought that if a buyer initiates a unauthorized use (fraud) claim with their CC or bank, and the result was a charge-back by that bank, then paypal is bound by the banks decision?
Maybe not?
04-06-2019 01:07 PM
04-06-2019 01:09 PM
04-06-2019 02:03 PM
Paypal is bound by the bank's decision however, PP protects sellers if they can prove that an item was shipped to the payment address. That means if the bank ruled in the buyers favor, the money would come from PP, not the seller.
04-06-2019 04:27 PM
04-06-2019 04:31 PM
04-06-2019 04:43 PM
Thank God! Just got the email from PayPal today saying they're covering it. Of course it sucks that someone frauded an item, and of course all we care about is getting to keep our money but just the very thought that a fraud was committed on our watch just makes us angry.
A helpful tip, save your shipping receipt! On the receipt it showed where the item was addressed to go to, don't know if this is what helped us the most but we did send that over to PayPal to prove to them that our full intention was to ship to the address PayPal/eBay provided to us. Its scary though that despite DIRECT SIGNATURE requirement the conman was able to convince FedEx to redirect the package.