eBay

ted1001 · ‎05-09-2023

I just got a take down (Vero) notice that an original Kodachrome color slide (photograph) of a railroad locomotive taken from public property was called out by a shipping container company as a fake and/or counterfeit item!! And the locomotive is not theirs, but rather belonging to the Santa Fe Railway with the shipping container company's logo on it.

Just how an original photograph (slide) can be called a fake/counterfeit item is beyond me. And of course there is no appeal.

Obviously no one at eBay actually looked at the listing to verify it.

And doing a search for other sold items like it turned up several items just like my item that was deleted with that logo on the locomotive.

What gives here???

Thanks!

Ted

hartungcards · ‎05-09-2023

Well Ted, it looks like you've drawn the short straw today. Better luck next time.

rfmtm · ‎05-11-2023

Did you take the photo yourself or where did the slide come from?

crazystuff4sale · ‎05-11-2023

I believe their issue is with trademark violation not fake/counterfeit.

terrycece62 · ‎05-11-2023

If your listing is removed DO NOT RELIST

unless you are willing to risk your eBay account being suspended

chapeau-noir · ‎05-11-2023

@ted1001 Agree with @crazystuff4sale this: And the locomotive is not theirs, but rather belonging to the Santa Fe Railway with the shipping container company's logo on it is probably their beef. Did they say it was actually 'fake' (which would tell me whomever accused you of that seems confused) or it was some kind of brand confusion issue/trademark issue? It would be helpful to know the language. Some companies are like rabid wolves when it comes to any kind of representation (if I were with the company I'd be delighted with the free advertising but oh well).

(At any rate, totally off the subject, I just wanted to say that I've looked at your listings many times and they're really beautiful - I love old locos and trains - for a part of my childhood I lived near a train yard belonging to the Penna. Railroad, and the 6:00 a.m. whistle as the Chicago train flew through was my alarm clock to wake me for school).

“The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don’t have any.”
— Alice Walker

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blurryrobot · ‎05-11-2023

Yes, nonexistent trademark violation.

Remember back during the cold war when American railfans used to poke fun at the Iron Curtain countries' paranoia about having their trains photographed? Now here we are, getting the same nonsense from private industry.

At this rate there is NOTHING sold on Ebay that isn't susceptible to getting vero'd. If it's got a maker's stamp then they can claim its a trademark violation. If it's got no makers stamp they can claim it's a fake. Ebay needs to drop this program altogether because it's just providing a channel for legal harassment.

blurryrobot · ‎05-11-2023

Hmm, maybe try listing future photos as 'used' if you can. Ebay allows limitless corporate abuses like this, but a lot of the companies' bots seem to focus on new items. I guess a used color slide and a new color slide are pretty much identical, technically it is 'used' as soon as you look at it. 🙂

ted1001 · ‎05-12-2023

They did say it was a 'fake/counterfeit' item...and after doing a search here on eBay for this item I found several other photos of this same engine, as well as 10's of models and 10's of other photographs/slides of this company's ships.

So why was my item singled out? It sure would be nice if eBay would actually have a real person (not some stupid chatbot thing) review all of the veRO claims. This would help reduce abuse.

The item itself was only a $5.00 item so no real loss...of course eBay looses as well with no FVF or insertion fee.

Ted

But bottom line there are literally 100 or so other items listed for sale here with that company's logo on them!

mam98031 · ‎05-12-2023

@ted1001

These are all great points. VERO violations are absolutely horrible to deal with and next to impossible to get reversed. But you should try.

In the email you got there should be contact info. The only way you can get this item back on Ebay is to get them to reverse their decision and notify Ebay. Ebay can do NOTHING to help you. You have to get whomever it was that caused the take down to see the light so to speak.

Good Luck.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

fashunu4eeuh · ‎05-13-2023

“…sure would be nice if eBay would actually have a real person (not some stupid chatbot thing) review all of the veRO claims. This would help reduce abuse.”

It would not matter if eBay had an army of dedicated reviewers perusing the listings, because eBay has no authority in the case of a Vero takedown. By law, eBay must comply when a right’s holder reports a violation—bogus or not. It is not in eBay’s purview to question the merits of the takedown.

In 1998, Congress passed the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), which amended U.S. copyright law to address important parts of the relationship between copyright and the internet. The Vero program is eBay’s response to this law.

rfmtm · ‎05-13-2023

Actually, except for copyrights, eBay does not have to remove a listing under the law. The law applies to copyright violations only. Authenticity, trademark, or patent abuse are not covered by the DMCA prohibitions on web site removal. It's eBay's own policy that extends the DMCA-like behavior to this. The downside is that as a result you don't get the DMCA-mandated remedies for people who abuse the system.

rfmtm · ‎05-13-2023

Do not relist until the VeRO member lifts the complaint.

First contact the VeRO member and find out what their problem is. If no answer or an unsatisfactory one, the easiest thing to do first is have your attorney send them a letter, making sure to copy ebay's legal department. This alone often has an abuser back down.

You also could file a counter notice, and while this is only legally recognized for copyright, ebay treats it differently and will require the rights holder to show he has started legal action against you for the infringement, or will otherwise let you relist the item.

Obviously the VeRO abuser counts on you not knowing what to do, or that it isn't worth the trouble, so gets away with it. An honest VeRO member will respond with the reason for the take down and if just something in the listing, let you correct it.

Unfortunately letting VeRO strikes go unchallenged stay on your ebay record, and you risk permanent suspension. So sometimes it is just easier to avoid listing certain items on ebay.

tabcu51 · ‎05-13-2023

@ted1001 wrote:
They did say it was a 'fake/counterfeit' item...and after doing a search here on eBay for this item I found several other photos of this same engine, as well as 10's of models and 10's of other photographs/slides of this company's ships.

So why was my item singled out? It sure would be nice if eBay would actually have a real person (not some stupid chatbot thing) review all of the veRO claims. This would help reduce abuse.

The item itself was only a $5.00 item so no real loss...of course eBay looses as well with no FVF or insertion fee.

Ted

But bottom line there are literally 100 or so other items listed for sale here with that company's logo on them!

It makes no difference, hundreds of cars speeding down a stretch of interstate and the trooper had to pull me over, guess who gets the ticket... Also even actual ebay employees have no power over a Vero claim. It is sad and infuriating, many a seller (myself included) has had issues with this and there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it.

I also agree the Vero program doesn't really stop any actual infringement, it simply serves as a huge seller abuse tool even thou those using it believe it's doing some good (even thou the actual vero that you received is initiated by a bot as well).

The only thing you might do is write to the company/person that reported you (their contact info should be in the email message ebay vero sent you) and ask them what it is that triggered the violation.

Either way I would not relist.

@mam98031 wrote:
@ted1001

These are all great points. VERO violations are absolutely horrible to deal with and next to impossible to get reversed. But you should try.

In the email you got there should be contact info. The only way you can get this item back on Ebay is to get them to reverse their decision and notify Ebay. Ebay can do NOTHING to help you. You have to get whomever it was that caused the take down to see the light so to speak.

Even that IMO is dangerous, I do believe in contacting them however sadly once an item is Vero'd it's best considered off limits on ebay. I've seen cases where the seller did get the violation reversed, relisted the item and got vero'd again! Yes, it's true and these violations are cumulative and can and will get your account suspended so IMO don't do it.