Advice on suing buyer in small claims court for being refunded and not returning the item

[magesystems]

I recently sold a laptop without a battery to a buyer. The buyer received the item and wanted to return it because "it doesn't charge". I declined as this was stated in the listing. The buyer subsequently filed a claim "not as described" and won (?) and my appeal was denied (??). The buyer was automatically refunded and has not returned the item.

I live in Connecticut and the buyer lives in New Jersey. This is close enough that I don't mind going through the motions to sue in in small claims court and would otherwise like to learn more about the process first-hand even if it does not result in getting my money back in the end.

From what I've read, Connecticut has no jurisdiction over the buyer because they are out of state and I must file claim in New Jersey. The buyer's state says that a theft of "more than $200 and up to $500" is considered a fourth-degree felony offense. Sounds pretty clear.

I have reached out to the seller both via eBay messages and by phone. They have expressed no desire to return the item despite receiving a pre-paid return label.

I have the buyer's name, address, phone number, and place of business/work. I am keeping record of conversations and dates.

As a first order of business I believe that I should file a criminal complain with my local PD and to have it forwarded to the buyer's local PD and proceed from there.

Considering that the transaction may also be considered criminal (including misrepresentation and fraud), is small claims the right place to file?

I would appreciate any further advice on how I should proceed.

Thank you.

[myangelandmyprincess]

When it's a remorse returns on a no returns listing and you decline it does decline the return and refund.  The buyer then opened an item not as described case which would be a separate issue.  The question is how the op responded to that 

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@myangelandmyprincess wrote:

When it's a remorse returns on a no returns listing and you decline it does decline the return and refund.  The buyer then opened an item not as described case which would be a separate issue.  The question is how the op responded to that 

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It's pretty clear they either didn't respond at all, or they asked Ebay to step in.

[needitlikea0inthehead]

She described that it DID NOT have a battery in her listing.   Of course a laptop needs to have a battery in order to charge it

 hence it appears the buyer did not buy a battery therefor it would not charge.  I don't see where it is NOT as described.  And you do not need a lawyer in small claims court.  The only cost would be the filing and serving but she could serve by mail .  Plus chances are good court won't be necessary.

[netwizz760]

I think your chances are 50/50 if you sue the buyer.   First while I don’t doubt this is fraud, you aren’t the prosecutor or attorney general, so you have no standing to being any criminal cases.   The best case scenario is you get your laptop back or it paid for.

You CAN sue for $$$ in a proper venue, but I am not sure if a small-claims or a higher court is better.  It really depends on if you want interrogatories, depositions, discovery, etc. as well as the dollar amount.

I would personally return the laptop to the seller, and I think a lawsuit may work.  That said the buyer has a very strong defense in that IF he or she raises eBay’s terms of service, it is clear you consented  to allowing eBay to resolve the matters arising on their platform.   Simply put if the buyer can find this text and formulate it into a motion to dismiss written and/or oral arguments can be made that YOU waived your right to sue the buyer.

That said, the court isn’t going to bring this defense up on the buyer is behalf, and without legal representation the buyer will probably botch the defense.   Moreover each party generally pays their own legal fees unless there is a fee shifting statute or other court awarded fees.  Search American Rule.

There is a good chance the buyer will settle by returning your property simply because most people are scared of court for some reason or don’t have time to show.

It might work.  Do keep in mind eBay is at much at fault as the buyer in that eBay should make it more clear that not accepting returns doesn’t mean no refunds.  They should flat out tell you to accept the return or they buyer will keep the item AND get a refund.

None the less, eBay is virtually untouchable with the standard binding arbitration, no jury trials, no class actions, etc. terms of service.

[nc-daydreamer]

Firs, I feel for your plight, and I'd be upset too. But having "worked" eBay for over 20 years, and having read all the rules and contracts, as well as watched similar cases happen, it is with sadness I feel that you have no grounds for a suit.

First, eBay's rules are that if you have a no return policy, it does not mean no refunds - it just means you don't want the item back. Been this way for over 10 years.  People have lost thousands of dollars by not understanding the rules of engagement.  I recall one case when this nonsense first started where a guy had sold a rare guitar and lost it to the buyer and lost the refund too. Even if a buyer destroys the item (such as the case where a valuable painting was returned after the buyer's cat clawed it to pieces), the buyer wins.

When a seller refuses to refund, it is a blackmark against their account and the buyer ears a defect for an unresolved case and eBay can, will and has closed the seller's account so you cannot sell anymore. 

I am sorry this happened to you, and I wish you luck.  If the principal is worth more than the money involved for fees and lawyers and the expense of having to go to court in NJ, then that is ok, but I'd not expect a favorable outcome.

Below I am offering links to the rules and your User agreement - in case you failed to learn them thus far: 

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies/user-agreement?id=4259 

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/setting-returns-policy?id=4368 

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/handle-return-request-seller?id=4115 

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/selling-seller-performance/appeal-defect?id=4871 

There are links inside each policy to learn more. Again, I wish you well. If you succeed, maybe you can get policy change to come about, but as it is, I doubt it. The buyer asked you nicely and tried not to bring eBay into the situation. You refused, forcing them to file a SNAD. It could be worse ans a buyer has 180 days through PayPal or their credit card to get a refund, regardless if item is returned or not; which includes a 20 buck charge the seller has to pay for them doing so. The wiser sellers who have learned the hard way - just accept the return from the onset and take the loss on their Schedule C when they file income taxes.

Please let us know what happens as this case would prove of interest to the world.  Thanks.

[debad4042]

Judge is going to read the eBay MBG and tell you to pay court costs and get lost

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@debad4042 wrote:

Judge is going to read the eBay MBG and tell you to pay court costs and get lost

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And I'm afraid that is what will happen.

Ebay's terms are out there for everyone to read, and terms clearly state that if the seller doesn't act on the return/refund request, then Ebay will make the decision. Ebay made their decision - the seller doesn't legally  have grounds for a suit.

That said, actually filing a small claims suit is not very expensive, and just receiving the subpoena may scare the buyer into either returning the laptop or the money. 

[onestopnerdshop]

Having a similar issue currently. Apparently these "customers" of ebay are realizing they can get free merch this way.  I guess eBay enjoys being involved in federal offenses idk. Mail fraud and damages at the very least.

[myangelandmyprincess]

Except eBay's policy is for items not as described which isn't this item.  eBay may not have the power to decide that and enforce their not requiring a return policy and thus suing eBay would lead no where but the op isn't trying to sue eBay.  They're trying to sue the buyer for committing fraud in this case filing a false claim to get their money back.  Plus even when given a return label they did not send back.   I could see a court telling the buyer they need to return the item to the seller.  Now wether it gets enforced without more expense than it's worth is another thing

[kensgiftshop]

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@magesystems wrote:

I recently sold a laptop without a battery to a buyer. The buyer received the item and wanted to return it because "it doesn't charge". I declined as this was stated in the listing. The buyer subsequently filed a claim "not as described" and won (?) and my appeal was denied (??). The buyer was automatically refunded and has not returned the item.

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If you wanted the item back before refunding, why didn't you accept the return?

Your no returns don't mean anything when a buyer says an item is defective.

[kensgiftshop]

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@bargainsandbaubles wrote:

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@coolections wrote:

Looks like it was a big price to pay not knowing you should never send someone money without getting you item first. Good luck in court, please return when all said and done and let us know how it worked out.

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Go back and read, they didn't blindly refund the buyer, they (the buyer) opened a case and somehow won.

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The buyer won because the seller didn't accept the return when the INAD was filed.

Seller didn't accept the return and Ebay refunded the buyer and let them keep the item.

[johnnys_collectables]

I went that route, Customer never returned the item and Ebay refunded them, I complained and complained.

Sent email after email requesting a call, That never came. Ebay basically helped the customer steal it from me

YOUR ON YOUR OWN

[johnnys_collectables]

Not true, It happened to me. The buyer never sent the item back and ebay refunded them.

[redlmc]

Having worked in credit for 20 years before working in education, I have filed many small claims petitions.  

I think you have a case for:

1.  The money was refunded to the buyer even though it was forceful

2.  The buyer still has the money and the item

3.  eBay's policy regarding automatically refunding the buyer in this case seems questionable; I could see where a judge would challenge that policy; I can see Judge Judy questioning it

4.  Be very specific in your petition;  I filed one last year on a rental issue and my complaint was around 20 pages; it is better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it

5.  My experience in cases is it often boils down to who is the most credible; having your ducks in a row will help you be the most credible.

Good luck; keep us posted.

[ma-647837]

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@magesystems wrote:

I recently sold a laptop without a battery to a buyer. The buyer received the item and wanted to return it because "it doesn't charge".

- I declined as this was stated in the listing.

The buyer subsequently filed a claim "not as described"

- and won (?)

- and my appeal was denied (??).

- The buyer was automatically refunded and has not returned the item.

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You agreed to the policy by using eBay.

In some instances, we may not require that an item be returned to the seller. In these situations, we refund the buyer and may seek reimbursement from the seller, for example if:

1. The return request was opened claiming the item was not as described

2. The seller chooses not to accept a return request
3. The seller didn't issue a return label

Do any of the stated instances apply? For example,

1. Did the buyer subsequently file a claim "not as described"?

2. Did  you I declined and the seller chooses not to accept a return request?

3. Did you the seller didn't issue a return label?

Would you mention any of this in court?