Account Restricted for Leaving Honest Feedback for Buyer Who Missused Returns

[cheyennetradingco]

We have had our account restricted for leaving honest feedback on a buyer’s page.

Buyer requested return for item not as described claiming item not sealed.  We accepted return. Received it back, sealed exactly as stated in listing, uploaded picture of sealed item to return request. Issued refund of cost minus shipping through PayPal.  Ebay overrode our decision, taking money from our PayPal account to refund buyer in full. Buyer sent multiple abusive emails calling us a crook for not offering full refund. Buyer threatened negative feedback in messages and did actually leave negative feedback. We left honest feedback for buyer summarizing the bad experience we had with buyer misusing returns. Ebay restricted account because we were honest in our feedback about the buyer. 

Ebay gives option to leave feedback for buyer after transaction yet filters it so we can only leave positive.  Sellers get penalized with restrictions it we are honest.   Ebay is deciding more of these cases in favor of the buyer leaving sellers to pay the cost in return shipping fees and reputation. Buyers know they can abuse the policies and when confronted Ebay does nothing because they consider sellers as their “employees” instead of the entrepreneurial business people we truly are and consider our customers as their buyers not the consumers who desire our products at our prices. Thinking of moving $36,000 of listings to new platform totaling $80,000 in yearly sales.  Any suggestions?

[castlemagicmemories]

---

@getitright1234 wrote:

---

@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

Buyers leaving negatives can help prevent trouble for future buyers. It is useful for that feedback to be visible, just like it is useful for product feedback to be visible.

---

And that is why some Sellers want the same right to leave honest feedback for Buyers,  so that other Sellers can be protected.  eBay is (in place to) protect Buyers from Bad Sellers;  therefore there really is no need for Buyers to leave feedback, all too often it is used as a tool to extort things out of the Sellers.   

It is the Sellers who are the most vurnurable:  Free Shipping/Free Returns/False SNADS/Buyers's Returning rocks/bricks/ 30 day return window for eBay/ and 6 month Return window for Paypal:  to say this climate is overtly buyer friendly is no joke.  

---

it's often been said by other sellers that since you meet your buyer in most cases post sale, it doesn't protect other sellers.  While Ebay may protect buyers, the buyer is required to protect themselves first, by doing buyer's due diligence and reading feedback comments.  A buyer may find themselves in a bad situation because they can't judge what isn't there.

Buyers are vulnerable to false listings, condition not as described, pictures photoshopped,  artfully arranged to conceal damage, or posting just one picture, inaccurate responses to questions about damage by just saying the item is fine, by accident or design, and improper treatment.  The damage is often done before Ebay can protect them.  

[castlemagicmemories]

If a buyer's neg does not violate any policy, it should not be removed. 

Some seem to be very successful in removing it, that's all.  While some may have to put a bit of effort into it, others don't.

[moo*cow*corner]

All of these things are covered by the ebay MBG. Buyers ARE protected. Sellers who do those things don't last long here. Unless they do HUGE volume, of course. Even then, their days are usually numbered.

Plus, the things you are saying don't happen as near as often as you make it out to be. It's probably just as common as a noobie seller getting scammed out of their expensive phone, handbag, or laptop. Where's ebay protection for them? Oh, that's right. Nowhere. Those threads pop up on a regular basis too.

[castlemagicmemories]

 What often gets forgotten while it looks like they have lots of bad FB, you have to consider the number of transactions they do.  100 negative FB for 10,000 transactions is still only 1%.  But that 100 negative FB really looks like a large number and therefore some forget to consider that they do a ton of transactions.  I'm certainly Not defending them, I'm just saying that some don't see it in the light in which it needs to be looked at.

With all due respect, thank you for your perspective but let me assure you I aboslutely understand perspective and ratio of transactions to negative or neutral feedback.  I doubt that is something most don't understand but again your perogative.

It is true that there are bad buyers and bad sellers here, and of course if you buy a lot as I do, there is more of a chance you will run into bad sellers.  So perhaps the answer is don't buy as much, which others have stated they are already doing.

[castlemagicmemories]

---

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

---

@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

Buyers leaving negatives can help prevent trouble for future buyers. It is useful for that feedback to be visible, just like it is useful for product feedback to be visible.

---

Thank you.  Not every neg is unjustified.  They may simply be unwanted.

---

And the buyer can't judge what isn't there.  But then again, that is the whole point.

[dcintennessee]

---

@southern*sweet*tea wrote:

**general reply**

This forum is rapidly turning from being helpful to becoming a source of morbid entertainment.

---

Amen, @southern*sweet*tea. There seems to have been a horrible downturn within the past few months. Less civility, less truly useful input...unfortunate especially for new sellers who come here needing help. 

[auctionpet]

Only sellers who have free returns are allowed to deduct a portion of sales price upon return, if there's an issue with the item. All other sellers are required to issue a full refund, normally this happens automatically when ebay tracking shows the item has been delivered. I have no idea how you were even able to offer a partial.

As this was a cheap item and the shipping had to also be cheap, it's just not worth a buyer hassle. I'm not saying the buyer was right. The feedback option for a Buyer is ONLY Positive, thus it should be apparent that if you don't have something nice to say, your not allowed to say otherwise and it's best to not leave any feedback.

Step back before deciding to do something and evaluate if the results will be worth it. Try to avoid making a decision when your still upset, don't let your emotions get the best of you. Nearly every seller has been in your shoes.

$3 has now resulted in a restricted account, a negative feedback and obvious stress. Pick your battles.

Take care!

[castlemagicmemories]

---

@dcintennessee wrote:

---

@southern*sweet*tea wrote:

**general reply**

This forum is rapidly turning from being helpful to becoming a source of morbid entertainment.

---

Amen, @southern*sweet*tea. There seems to have been a horrible downturn within the past few months. Less civility, less truly useful input...unfortunate especially for new sellers who come here needing help. 

---

It is a shame the Boards have become toxic.  

Possibly some of it is due to the rejection of truth that is outside a user's experience, or assuming there is no experience.  Telling others that something absolutely can't happen when their experience and that of others says it can and has is not right.  I've seen this time and again.

[moo*cow*corner]

---

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

---

---

And the buyer can't judge what isn't there.  But then again, that is the whole point.

---

You are arguing that buyers need protection before a sale. Ebay doesn't necessarily see it that way. They aren't buyers until they actually buy something. At that point, the MBG kicks in, and they are protected, no matter what. The seller always pays. Even if a neg gets removed, you can bet that ebay will be keeping track and watching. We've seen sellers get the boot with no apparent selling issues showing in their FB. And with the new service metrics, sellers will get booted for even more varieties of behind the scenes "infractions". No red donuts necessary.

[moo*cow*corner]

---

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

There was a recent thread on the Selling Board about an account that was having neuts and negs removed very quickly.  Many Board regulars participated in this thread and so are aware of it.  Attention was drawn to it, and Ebay started monitoring the situation.  Their neuts and negs were running around 5-7.  They are now up to 47 and 51.  I won't mention what these comments were for, but they didn't fall within grounds for removal.

---

If we smaller fry sellers could have negs removed with the speed and effiency of that particular seller, these boards would be empty of sellers. We'd all still be on hold with ebay CS getting the same courtesy for ourselves. But, we don't. THAT was the source of the outrage.

[castlemagicmemories]

---

@moo*cow*corner wrote:

---

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

---

---

And the buyer can't judge what isn't there.  But then again, that is the whole point.

---

You are arguing that buyers need protection before a sale. Ebay doesn't necessarily see it that way. They aren't buyers until they actually buy something. At that point, the MBG kicks in, and they are protected, no matter what. The seller always pays. Even if a neg gets removed, you can bet that ebay will be keeping track and watching. We've seen sellers get the boot with no apparent selling issues showing in their FB. And with the new service metrics, sellers will get booted for even more varieties of behind the scenes "infractions". No red donuts necessary.

---

I see your point but the whole point of doing buyer's due diligence and reading feedback comments is to avoid a bad transaction and while Ebay protects the buyer post sale, the buyer needs to protect themselves first and Ebay expects them to do that.  Your buying privileges can (as others have stated they were) be affected by filing too many cases; you can lose your MBG coverage, as posts have attested to this as well.  Responsible buyers DO their buyer's due diligence because they want to avoid a bad transaction, they don't want to be protected after the fact, when the damage has been done.  The protection is good but the whole point is you shouldn't have to use it.  So red doughnuts are absolutely necessary to avoid buying where the decision to do so would be a bad one.

Sellers getting the boot with nothing showing in their feedback can be an indication that they were very adept at getting those negs removed.  Buyers couldn't avoid bad transactions, that as they stacked up, seller was in trouble

I know no seller likes a neg and I save them for truly egregious behavior.  You have to really earn a neg from me.  I am sensitive to the fact that it might hurt their livelihood, and when I post one, I make sure it violates no policy that might get it removed.  Yet at times, it is, as others have experienced as well.  We are not all liars.

[castlemagicmemories]

---

@moo*cow*corner wrote:

---

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

There was a recent thread on the Selling Board about an account that was having neuts and negs removed very quickly.  Many Board regulars participated in this thread and so are aware of it.  Attention was drawn to it, and Ebay started monitoring the situation.  Their neuts and negs were running around 5-7.  They are now up to 47 and 51.  I won't mention what these comments were for, but they didn't fall within grounds for removal.

---

If we smaller fry sellers could have negs removed with the speed and effiency of that particular seller, these boards would be empty of sellers. We'd all still be on hold with ebay CS getting the same courtesy for ourselves. But, we don't. THAT was the source of the outrage.

---

I would see your point if this had not happened, as I experienced it and as others have experienced, with small sellers.  It may not have been automatic, and I am sorry that small sellers may have to put more effort into it, but without violating any policies, they were removed.  It seems to me the source of the outrage was the fact that the statement, feedback is not removed unless there is a policy violation or cause was addressed as not being true, when there has been feedback removed that violated nothing.

[castlemagicmemories]

---

@moo*cow*corner wrote:

---

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

---

---

And the buyer can't judge what isn't there.  But then again, that is the whole point.

---

You are arguing that buyers need protection before a sale. Ebay doesn't necessarily see it that way. They aren't buyers until they actually buy something. At that point, the MBG kicks in, and they are protected, no matter what. The seller always pays. Even if a neg gets removed, you can bet that ebay will be keeping track and watching. We've seen sellers get the boot with no apparent selling issues showing in their FB. And with the new service metrics, sellers will get booted for even more varieties of behind the scenes "infractions". No red donuts necessary.

---

I see your point but the whole point of doing buyer's due diligence and reading feedback comments is to avoid a bad transaction and while Ebay protects the buyer post sale, the buyer needs to protect themselves first and Ebay expects them to do that.  Your buying privileges can (as others have stated they were) be affected by filing too many cases; you can lose your MBG coverage, as posts have attested to this as well.  Responsible buyers DO their buyer's due diligence because they want to avoid a bad transaction, they don't want to be protected after the fact, when the damage has been done.  The protection is good but the whole point is you shouldn't have to use it.  So red doughnuts are absolutely necessary to avoid buying where the decision to do so would be a bad one.

Sellers getting the boot with nothing showing in their feedback can be an indication that they were very adept at getting those negs removed.  Buyers couldn't avoid bad transactions, that as they stacked up, seller was in trouble.

Buyers have already states numerous times that they won't buy here anymore because they can't trust feedback.  If no red doughnuts were possible, or seen, that would have an even greater affect on sales.  

I know no seller likes a neg and I save them for truly egregious behavior.  You have to really earn a neg from me.  I am sensitive to the fact that it might hurt their livelihood, and when I post one, I make sure it violates no policy that might get it removed.  Yet at times, it is, as others have experienced as well.  We are not all liars.

[moms**art**window**]

Negs should be scroll down choices by the buyer done in such a way as to be able to be verified as true or false,unverifiable opinions should be disallowed on negs,however until then i will take a peek on buyers that don't sell anything themselves so of course that means %100 pos great right well lets check the buyers "feedback left for others" you can pretty much figure out if you are dealing with an adult child or scammer,i did find one that i had an offer on that left 4 negs (the buyer had only left 5 total feedback's out of 27 recent feedback's left by seller with a couple that said don't trust buyer that were pos but the negs the buyer left were childish and just nasty,enough to say no way on this buyer, so regrettably no sale,but buyers tell on themselves nearly %100 of time i bet if you look with as much as happened to OP they will find they weren't the first (of course sometimes it takes to to Tango) now if buyer threaten to leave neg unless you forked over the rest that's feedback extortion and should be removed,i wander if you left a feedback like this if it would be ok "requested refund+shipping item not opened obliged" is that neg? is that wrong to do?i bet make-up biz is tough,hope you have plenty of good buyers to make-up for it

[moo*cow*corner]

Even if a buyer doesn't do any due diligence at all, they are still protected. Even if you disagree, that's how ebay chooses to run the site.

A buyer that is made whole with a 100% refund and return postage paid is not damaged. There's no rewards for anger and emotional distress. Loss of time, any of that.

I haven't seen anyone call you a liar. I'm certainly not. I'm sure on some occasions, negs have been removed. That still doesn't mean it's the least bit common or widespread either.

Speaking for myself only, I have no problems with sellers trying to get negs removed to protect their businesses and livelihoods. It's ALWAYS a "he said, she said" situation anyway. FBs are opinions only. I have no way of knowing what really transpired for any given transaction, and neither does ebay.

Same with SNAD's, which are now automatically found for the buyer. Ebay tells us they have no way of knowing what happened in any of those cases either. I have no problem applying the same principle to FB.