eBay

avintagegemz · ‎10-21-2020

I recently sold several items of vintage jewelry to a customer. From the beginning, it was a difficult transaction, the customer wanted multiple discounts and combined shipping but in multiple packages. It arrived 2+ weeks ago but today I get contacted that one of the brooches had 2 leaves broken on a flower, and the other was missing a rhinestone. They were not that way when it left, but I offered a full a refund upon return, but the customer wanted me to pay for repairs, then when I refused wanted a refund of the original price (before the discount) plus the $16 it cost me to ship all of the orders (the brooch alone was only $4, but she had 7 orders). I refused by offered the price she paid for brooch and the original shipping, and to purchase the return label through Ebay. Now it turns out she forwarded all of the jewelry though a shipping company in Delaware to Russia. She wants me to pay to return it from Russia. Likely, it broke in transit from the US to Russia, but I will not pay for it to be shipped from Russia, and she wants me to do the return outside Ebay. I am probably looking at 7 negatives now. What should I do?

smileytown18 · ‎10-21-2020

eBay does not cover forwarded shipments, so it is not your issue. However you need to deal with this smartly.

First thing you should do is let eBay know so they can flag it.

Then: accept the return and let them print return shipping labels. It will print out from Delaware address-it is their problem if they want to do international shipping. Repeat calmly if they email: sorry, eBay only covers shipments to the address entered in checkout. You are welcome to ship it back with your own label with tracking. Stay calm and firm.

Let the return "time out" if they dont return and request eBay should close it.

Keep in touch with eBay customer service reps throughout the process so they flag that this is what happened.

Block the buyer.

Hope and pray for the best...

goldguy22k · ‎10-21-2020

Many sellers HATE freight forwarders, but it is a great benefit. eBay policy clearly states that once item is delivered to the address on the order, you are done. Once the buyer had it forwarded, they accept all responsibility for the condition as no one can verify what happened between deliver to the FF and to the buyer.

So as OP noted, keep this "return" within eBay and its system. Make sure your correspondence with the buyer is through eBay messages, because eBay will not accept 3rd party emails as proof. So if messages have been done that way, start over FROM SCRATCH, using eBay messages.

If the buyer tries a CC charge back, you need to fight that with the proof that you delivered to an address on the order and that it was forwarded outside of the country and you have no control or idea what happened with it.

Stay calm and follow the policies and you should be OK! Ask again if anything seems unclear.

Good luck!

kensgiftshop · ‎10-21-2020

@avintagegemz

If the buyer files an INAD, you'll have to accept it and pay return shipping.

Since they used a freight forwarder, you only pay the shipping from the freight forwarder.

The buyer will have to pay to have it shipped back to the freight forwarder.

Have a great day.

monster-deals · ‎10-21-2020

@goldguy22k wrote:
Many sellers HATE freight forwarders, but it is a great benefit. eBay policy clearly states that once item is delivered to the address on the order, you are done. Once the buyer had it forwarded, they accept all responsibility for the condition as no one can verify what happened between deliver to the FF and to the buyer.

So as OP noted, keep this "return" within eBay and its system. Make sure your correspondence with the buyer is through eBay messages, because eBay will not accept 3rd party emails as proof. So if messages have been done that way, start over FROM SCRATCH, using eBay messages.

If the buyer tries a CC charge back, you need to fight that with the proof that you delivered to an address on the order and that it was forwarded outside of the country and you have no control or idea what happened with it.

Stay calm and follow the policies and you should be OK! Ask again if anything seems unclear.

Good luck!

Except a blue recently said that items going to a forwarder isn't proof enough to protect a seller.

Can you imagine delivery to a business that is a freight forwarder not being enough proof that they are a freight forwarder?

Good luck indeed.

monster-deals · ‎10-22-2020

It is almost as absurd as a blue telling us that a buyer with a closed non-paying bidder case can open an item not received case and that is working as intended.

dtexley3 · ‎10-22-2020

@monster-deals wrote:
@goldguy22k wrote:
Many sellers HATE freight forwarders, but it is a great benefit. eBay policy clearly states that once item is delivered to the address on the order, you are done. Once the buyer had it forwarded, they accept all responsibility for the condition as no one can verify what happened between deliver to the FF and to the buyer.

Except a blue recently said that items going to a forwarder isn't proof enough to protect a seller.

Can you imagine delivery to a business that is a freight forwarder not being enough proof that they are a freight forwarder?

Good luck indeed.

What was said was that they won't dismiss the return anymore when an item was forwarded because "it could be the buyer either works for the forwarder or uses the forwarder as a mail drop" which is so rare that it's ridiculous. The buyer must STILL return the item to the forwarding agent at the buyer's expense. And then the fowarding agent must use the label provider to send it back to the seller.

Member of the Grumpy Old Man crew

mam98031 · ‎10-22-2020

@monster-deals wrote:
@goldguy22k wrote:
Many sellers HATE freight forwarders, but it is a great benefit. eBay policy clearly states that once item is delivered to the address on the order, you are done. Once the buyer had it forwarded, they accept all responsibility for the condition as no one can verify what happened between deliver to the FF and to the buyer.

So as OP noted, keep this "return" within eBay and its system. Make sure your correspondence with the buyer is through eBay messages, because eBay will not accept 3rd party emails as proof. So if messages have been done that way, start over FROM SCRATCH, using eBay messages.

If the buyer tries a CC charge back, you need to fight that with the proof that you delivered to an address on the order and that it was forwarded outside of the country and you have no control or idea what happened with it.

Stay calm and follow the policies and you should be OK! Ask again if anything seems unclear.

Good luck!
Except a blue recently said that items going to a forwarder isn't proof enough to protect a seller.

Can you imagine delivery to a business that is a freight forwarder not being enough proof that they are a freight forwarder?

Good luck indeed.

You are right there can be some exceptions, but one thing that does stand true is what @kensgiftshop stated. The seller should require the buyer to open an INAD if they want to return the item. The seller should just go ahead and accept it. The buyer is then can ship the item directly to the seller at their own expense OR they can use the return label that the seller will supply which means that the buyer will have to ship it to their Reshipper and the Reshipper will then need to ship it back to the seller.

Most don't want to go through this process as if they choose to ship to their Reshipper, it is highly likely they will charge them for the service of shipping it back to the seller even though they have a shipping label to do what with. After all they are a business that offers a service.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

mam98031 · ‎10-22-2020

@monster-deals wrote:
It is almost as absurd as a blue telling us that a buyer with a closed non-paying bidder case can open an item not received case and that is working as intended.

Yes, because they could have submitted a payment to the seller that wasn't electronic. So yes this is allowed. The buyer has no protections and will certainly lose the case, but yes they can open the claim.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

ittybitnot · ‎10-22-2020

What was said was that they won't dismiss the return anymore when an item was forwarded because "it could be the buyer either works for the forwarder or uses the forwarder as a mail drop" which is so rare that it's ridiculous. The buyer must STILL return the item to the forwarding agent at the buyer's expense. And then the fowarding agent must use the label provider to send it back to the seller.

You would be correct. The "reshipper" will not provide evidence for the seller to say the item was indeed shipped out of the US. The seller indeed only needs to provide a label from the reshipper address back to the seller. This is at least "better" than if the seller used the eBay GSP, where they must fund in advance a return from "somewhereistan" for a SNAD.

This is where the "buy a cheap trinket" on the net scam comes in hand. Buyer has "something" sent to the seller, and the buyer uses the delivery confirmation number to satisfy the supposed return. The eBay bots/customer service only sees d/confirmation says "delivered". The buyer need not use the label provided so all is good for the buyer who then receives their refund.

There is a case now on the boards with the seller/victim of this scam waiting for an answer from ebay. Whether ebay considers this buyer fraud as "part of doing business on the net" faulty return or not has not yet been publicly decided.

lightlily_arts · ‎10-22-2020

Absolutely do not negotiate a return outside of eBay. I had a buyer in France that used a freight forwarder and wanted to return a jacket she purchased citing it didn't fit. She wanted me to pay the return postage and I refused citing that I would only issue the return label for the address it was shipped to in Los Angeles. She would need to ship it back to that address if she wanted to return it. The international postage was more than the price of the jacket so I never heard from her again. You only need to refund the purchase price of the item and associated shipping.