16.3 % Suggested Promotional Rate in My Category

[seymourssi]

LoL.  A shameless new low for eBay.  16.3% suggested on top of the 12% they already charge.  That's 16.3% of the item charge, shipping and sales tax, for those of you that are not hip to the actual charge.  Works out to be like 40% of the item. 

Will be moving my items back to 2% just for the insult, thanks for the memories eBay.  And moving my items elsewhere....

[mr_lincoln]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

@marnotom!  A.I. isn't running the company ... yet.  So the algorithms are still programmed by humans who apply the parameters for them to function ... 

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A.I. has to be programmed too, though, @mr_lincoln.  And look what happened to the crew of the Discovery One at the virtual hands of HAL.  🤪

I’m just suggesting that given how the code that runs this site is often problematic, something may be going on with these PL algorithms as well.

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@marnotom!   Yes, they started messing with them (again) towards the end of 2021 in preparation for PLA and the new way Views would be counted.  My experience is that every time the venue institutes a major change it has a negative impact on sales, period.  While we on this side do not know exactly WHAT was done, we are smart enough to know that SOMETHING was done based on drastic changes in sales.

In ANY business growth is key to ongoing future success ... 2022 annual sales declined.  So far in 2023 sales are not on a growth curve.

[mcdougle4248]

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@nuclearomen wrote:

just to add, in case anyone hasn't noticed or paid any attention, suggested rates on your listing took hikes directly after the release of this seller update by 1-4% on your seller hub. 

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@nuclearomen 

Yes, I noticed the increase in suggested rates since the release of the latest Seller Update.  I am seeing a

2% - 3% increase in suggested rates across all of my listings.  For me, the suggested rates have gone from

4% - 5% at the start of this year to a new high this morning of 11% - 11.4%.   

[mr_lincoln]

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@mcdougle4248 wrote:

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@nuclearomen wrote:

just to add, in case anyone hasn't noticed or paid any attention, suggested rates on your listing took hikes directly after the release of this seller update by 1-4% on your seller hub. 

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@nuclearomen 

Yes, I noticed the increase in suggested rates since the release of the latest Seller Update.  I am seeing a

2% - 3% increase in suggested rates across all of my listings.  For me, the suggested rates have gone from

4% - 5% at the start of this year to a new high this morning of 11% - 11.4%.   

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@mcdougle4248   Yes, we've been watching this for a while, mine jumped too ... significantly.  In basic terms, and over a rather long period of time testing things, I found that the fixed ad rates I used to use stopped yielding predictable average daily sales throughout 2022.  PLS sales were basically cut in half.  I then went ABOVE eBay's suggested rates on a test PLS and sales rose back to previous predictable levels.  My current test PLS has a fixed Ad rate of 1/3 the last test PLS and sales have again been cut in half.  

[mcdougle4248]

@mr_lincoln 

I am trying out a new strategy.  I downloaded the listings quality report yesterday and changed my rate to the same rate, 6%, that is shown for the Top 10% of items shown in eBay search per seller for listings like mine.  Only time will tell if this turns out to be a good strategy.  I have a feeling that the 6% rate is going to be too low to yield positive sales results.

[paraquip]

In the category I sell in the "ask" on ads when from 5% to 7.9% and they are now asking 11%

It's clear that ebay wants to run sellers off of their site......always trying to find the next best option

HK

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

@nuclearomen At present, we have ebay's suggested rates. And I've noticed no one ever mentions that ebay, at least in the Simple PLS set up, also recommends which listings to use with PLS. I have never spent much time studying ebay's choices here, but last time I looked, they recommended about 500 out of about 800....which seems to imply that I have about 300 listings that would be unlikely to benefit very much from PLS.

And later this summer ebay will be rolling out the PLS forecasting tool:

You’ll soon be able to see how your ad rate may impact your advertising performance and buyer reach before you launch a campaign. Our new ad rate forecasting feature will provide you with a real-time prediction of your estimated impression share during campaign setup and on your campaign details page. With this information, you’ll be able to extend your potential ad reach and budget your spending accordingly with the aim of boosting your campaign performance.

We don't have a lot of details on this so far, and it is to be launched incrementally, so we won't all receive it at the same time, but it is coming "this summer" (which, in ebayspeak, can mean anything from this summer to next summer, but I digress).

This is a tool that works at the campaign level. Here's what ebay says:

The estimated impression share metric balances your chosen ad rate with the maximum possible impressions your ad could receive. It helps to determine the impact your ad rate may have on your campaign’s overall success and performance.

For example, if your estimated impression share is 85%, it indicates that your choices such as ad rate, listings, and ad rate cap may result in you receiving 85% of the total predicted impressions for a campaign similar to yours. You can use this estimate to adjust your ad rate, remove or increase any ad rate caps, or select different listings to reach the desired impression share aligned with your advertising goals.

It only predicts impressions, not views or sales, which makes sense, since ebay has some control over impressions but no control over views or sales.  And it predicts as a percentage of some 100% ideal....which implies, look you can do fine with less than 100%....you decide what works for you.

ebay hasn't provided a mock-up of the tool, but I gather I would be able to set up a proposed campaign: choose these items at this rate/cap, etc, for this duration, and ebay would give me a forecasted percentage. I could then play around with the variables to get different forecasts: raise the rate or cap, change the duration, add or subtract some of the listings, etc. 

I'm sure some will say this is just a spin off of suggested rates, and that the higher the rate, the higher the forecast. But it will be interesting to see, for example, what is the forecasted rate for 30% cap versus 10% cap? Is it the 3 times the 10% rate, or is it much less of a difference, meaning a seller might reasonably conclude that 10% will provide an acceptable forecast, and there's no need to go higher. 

My prediction: PLS isn't going away, and no amount of complaining or wishful thinking will make it go away. Some sellers will be successful without ever using it, some will achieve greater success by using it wisely, and some will use it but never figure out how to optimize if for their own business. 

Ultimately, PLS works for those sellers who can find the right balance: an increase in sales velocity at an affordable cost. Too low a velocity increase (or none at all) and it isn't worth it, and too high a cost can outweigh the value of even a dramatic increase in sales velocity.

[mr_lincoln]

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@mcdougle4248 wrote:

@mr_lincoln 

I am trying out a new strategy.  I downloaded the listings quality report yesterday and changed my rate to the same rate, 6%, that is shown for the Top 10% of items shown in eBay search per seller for listings like mine.  Only time will tell if this turns out to be a good strategy.  I have a feeling that the 6% rate is going to be too low to yield positive sales results.

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@mcdougle4248   I think the % for successful sales will vary based on category and who else in that category uses PLS ... your 6% might excel or it may yield poor results.  Any results you care to share would be great.

[mr_lincoln]

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@paraquip wrote:

In the category I sell in the "ask" on ads when from 5% to 7.9% and they are now asking 11%

It's clear that ebay wants to run sellers off of their site......always trying to find the next best option

HK

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@paraquip   I don't think they are trying to run Sellers off, although that may be what happens in many instances.  I think they are just trying to see how much they can get out of Sellers.  The site, in my opinion, has too many items for sale which means the venue can suppress large amounts of listings and hold out for panic adjustments by Sellers ... in the form of discounts, higher Ad rates on PLS, lowering prices, accepting low ball offers, etc. 

So in basic terms, and again this is just my opinion, if the site had half of the listings that it currently has their strategy would be different.  They would be working to make sure eBay listings were being returned higher on all search engines to optimize the opportunity for something to sell.  

[nuclearomen]

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:

@nuclearomen At present, we have ebay's suggested rates. And I've noticed no one ever mentions that ebay, at least in the Simple PLS set up, also recommends which listings to use with PLS. I have never spent much time studying ebay's choices here, but last time I looked, they recommended about 500 out of about 800....which seems to imply that I have about 300 listings that would be unlikely to benefit very much from PLS.

And later this summer ebay will be rolling out the PLS forecasting tool:

You’ll soon be able to see how your ad rate may impact your advertising performance and buyer reach before you launch a campaign. Our new ad rate forecasting feature will provide you with a real-time prediction of your estimated impression share during campaign setup and on your campaign details page. With this information, you’ll be able to extend your potential ad reach and budget your spending accordingly with the aim of boosting your campaign performance.

We don't have a lot of details on this so far, and it is to be launched incrementally, so we won't all receive it at the same time, but it is coming "this summer" (which, in ebayspeak, can mean anything from this summer to next summer, but I digress).

This is a tool that works at the campaign level. Here's what ebay says:

The estimated impression share metric balances your chosen ad rate with the maximum possible impressions your ad could receive. It helps to determine the impact your ad rate may have on your campaign’s overall success and performance.

For example, if your estimated impression share is 85%, it indicates that your choices such as ad rate, listings, and ad rate cap may result in you receiving 85% of the total predicted impressions for a campaign similar to yours. You can use this estimate to adjust your ad rate, remove or increase any ad rate caps, or select different listings to reach the desired impression share aligned with your advertising goals.

It only predicts impressions, not views or sales, which makes sense, since ebay has some control over impressions but no control over views or sales.  And it predicts as a percentage of some 100% ideal....which implies, look you can do fine with less than 100%....you decide what works for you.

ebay hasn't provided a mock-up of the tool, but I gather I would be able to set up a proposed campaign: choose these items at this rate/cap, etc, for this duration, and ebay would give me a forecasted percentage. I could then play around with the variables to get different forecasts: raise the rate or cap, change the duration, add or subtract some of the listings, etc. 

I'm sure some will say this is just a spin off of suggested rates, and that the higher the rate, the higher the forecast. But it will be interesting to see, for example, what is the forecasted rate for 30% cap versus 10% cap? Is it the 3 times the 10% rate, or is it much less of a difference, meaning a seller might reasonably conclude that 10% will provide an acceptable forecast, and there's no need to go higher. 

My prediction: PLS isn't going away, and no amount of complaining or wishful thinking will make it go away. Some sellers will be successful without ever using it, some will achieve greater success by using it wisely, and some will use it but never figure out how to optimize if for their own business. 

Ultimately, PLS works for those sellers who can find the right balance: an increase in sales velocity at an affordable cost. Too low a velocity increase (or none at all) and it isn't worth it, and too high a cost can outweigh the value of even a dramatic increase in sales velocity.

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques yeah I read the update, don't much understand it really, have to wait to see this tool first. But IMO (and it's all IMO just as anyone else)  the tool will be just another means for them to manipulate high suggested rates. Forecasting? Seriously, ebay has no clue about my items as it is, their suggested rates are way to high for such a niche with next to no or no sales history on the site.. there are other sellers but the combined of us are not a huge number and giving 3 or the major sellers left this platform over a year ago as they don't need to be here when they have the market cornered every other avenue, but just there is example how they were making good money from those sellers but they pushed to much and drove them away. Unfortunately, most sellers don't have the options to just leave and be perfectly fine like they do.  

[byrd69er]

That looks like a great deal.....for eBay.  Not so great for you....in fact, it sucks.

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

@nuclearomen Agree, we need to wait to see it. And, ebay being ebay, who really knows when that will be....

[nuclearomen]

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:

@nuclearomen Agree, we need to wait to see it. And, ebay being ebay, who really knows when that will be....

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yeah, their typical time frame isn't usually very good, yet being it's dealing with PL, you can rest assured they are rolling it out asap, more money for the company so it's top priority unlike everything else. 

On side note, I started listing on another platform yesterday I have used periodically since 2019 - already I have a sale, here, no sales for 4 days, then had one Fri night, none since...gets worse by the week. My wife also keyed me in to another platform I wasn't aware of I will be checking out this week sometime. For now, ultimately just opening a new website of my own again as i did years ago but for time being I'll be playing market place jump. 

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

@nuclearomen Maybe if ebay decided to turn Vinyl into a Focus Category you'd do better here. But of course, ebay won't even provide hints as to which other categories are in the pipeline for Focus treatment, much less provide a timeline for when any new ones may come. The most recent is "streetwear", which, IMO, is a bit like a category that piggybacks onto sneakers. 

I seriously doubt ebay will ever add most of my stuff to Focus Categories, and if you aren't selling Focus, you are looking at the tablescraps of ebay's marketing efforts....

Hope sales improve for you as a multi channel seller.

[nuclearomen]

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:

@nuclearomen Maybe if ebay decided to turn Vinyl into a Focus Category you'd do better here. But of course, ebay won't even provide hints as to which other categories are in the pipeline for Focus treatment, much less provide a timeline for when any new ones may come. The most recent is "streetwear", which, IMO, is a bit like a category that piggybacks onto sneakers. 

I seriously doubt ebay will ever add most of my stuff to Focus Categories, and if you aren't selling Focus, you are looking at the tablescraps of ebay's marketing efforts....

Hope sales improve for you as a multi channel seller.

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques  i did well here, but it's gotten worse and worse due to their PL endeavors...and PL isn't the issue per say, it's the way they set them up and use them to deteriorate sales unless one gives in to their suggested rates (which I'm not and never was willing to do) and it should have never taken that direction. The point of PL was to make the company more money (obviously) but it has more or less destroyed the platform sellers trust and loyalty to the platform, rather leaving find new homes or whatever. But like all things, it won't change til things hit so rock bottom it slaps them so hard they will have to think about change, the issue is, that time hasn't come to pass and isn't happening soon. They will ride the PL greed to their death or new CEO comes in, which ever comes first. 

[seymourssi]

So to circle back, I moved my items back to 2%, all of them.  By all I mean the ones I promote.   Impressions dropped, sales increased.  Go figure. 

Anyone been on here 20 years or so and remember the 'Core Community Values' crap that eBay used to spoonfeed?   If you have good feedback & low returns we will promote your listings to the top of the pile.  And give you 20% off listing fees.  What a load of **bleep**.

Seriously, why even work for the 10% promotion on TRS any more.  Eff that.  Amazon items take a week to get here, maybe more.  Not going to bust balls to send my stuff in a hurry any more.  Most of my items used to be delivered in 2 days, maybe 3.  100% positive feedback or close.  Hardly any returns.  Eff you eBay and your 'core community values'. 

A disgusting display of corporate greed at work.