Wrong shipping method

[laperlalady]

I purchased 2 items within a few days of each other from the same seller. 

Both had USPS priority shipping and shipping was quite expensive. That is not the issue.  I wanted USPS shipping as we have locked boxes in our development for packages. 

Seller ships the first item FedEx. When I get the tracking, I immediately confirmed the listing stated USPS. I contacted the seller to make sure they would ship the second item via USPS. 

No response.

I wound up taking 4 hours off from work the day order #1 was delivered to accept the package. 

Again, I send another message to the seller with no response. 

Seller then ships order #2 via FedEx!

Another message to the seller with no response. 

Now I will have to take more time off when order #2 is due to be delivered. 

NOT happy. 

Order #1 is okay (extremely wrinkled, but I can steam press it.)

My question is…

Is changing the shipping method/carrier allowed?  I specifically chose this seller because they shipped USPS priority. 

Is there a way to report them?

[house*of*paws]

@participatrophy 

The reason my post is kinda sorta is that I’m basing my information both on what eBay does … as well as what it says.  And it isn’t unusual to read conflicting information in different sections of Help.

Many sellers get away with switching services AND companies without complaints from their buyers.  But eBay will NEVER protect a seller from a NAD dispute because the seller changed either services or companies from what the buyer had chosen during Checkout.

Interpret that as you will.

[kibble-net]

If the seller can't be bothered to respond to messages, and ships with a different carrier than the one advertised, the best recourse is to let others know via the feedback system.

Unfortunately I don't think they are breaking any rules. If they shipped with a slower method than what you paid for, then there is an issue. But switching one expedited service for another, or one standard service for another, while sometimes inconvenient for the buyer, is not an outright violation of any rules that I'm aware of.

That being said it's unprofessional to do this without asking the buyer's permission first. I wouldn't buy from them and I'd certainly alert potential buyers with appropriate FB.

[christworks]

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@bonanza125 wrote:

@christworks 

Shipping service and carrier are interpret the same way. When a buyer selects a service you are required to ship that service. If you state you will ship USPS Ground Advantage and you ship Fed Ex service that is a violation of policy

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@bonanza125 

Can you direct me to where eBay states both shipping service and shipping carrier are interpreted the same way by eBay? 

[participatrophy]

Says eBay where though? I've been all over the various policy pages which relate to shipping. Nowhere can I find an instance where the term "service" has been used to mean anything more than service levels, the distinctions among which all have to do with scope (time, distance, tracking). Whenever the distinction is about which specific company fulfills a given shipment in accordance with a given service level, the term "carrier" is used. These don't get used interchangeably. Where both are significant, the term shipping "method" is used to refer to them together. Am I looking in the wrong places? Where are you getting that they're interpreted the same way???

[christworks]

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@house*of*paws wrote:

@participatrophy 

  But eBay will NEVER protect a seller from a NAD dispute because the seller changed either services or companies from what the buyer had chosen during Checkout.

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This is an entirely different issue. What @participatrophy  and I are asking for is where this is stated in policy, not what eBay does or what those who have sold longer think eBay does.  

eBay policy does not at all state what you and @bonanza125 have said it does. In fact, to the contrary, both policy and their practice suggest they differentiate between the two. That does mean that they would do that if a buyer filed an INAD claim? Probably not. I certainly would not hang my hat on that. If I were ever in that situation, I certainly would argue my points made in this thread. 

My points are not to dismiss anybody. I genuinely did not know whether policy stated this somewhere and I wasn't aware of it. As you alluded to, it is certainly not uncommon to have two policies that contradict each other. 

The assertion was made that eBay defines shipping services and shipping carriers as one and the same. I'm just trying to validate that assertion and so far I've not seen anything concrete that does. 

I don't give my buyers a choice. My business policies are set to flat rate shipping, which allows me to select the service level I provide, Standard Shipping. From there I select the carrier when I go to buy the label. I go with the least expensive ground service so that I pocket what is left.  Normally it is USPS Ground Advantage, but dim. weight items going past Zone 4 often do better with FedEx or UPS. My policy avoids the ambiguity that surrounds the whole shipping carrier vs shipping service conflict.

[albertabrightalberta]

@christworks 

@participatrophy 

In some of ebay's policies, their choices of words can be confusing and without context, your argument is valid.

However based on the fact that sellers can offer buyers multiple choice or just a single choice of shipping service and shipping carrier, it's the SELLER who makes those options available.

In the case of the listing(s) purchased by @laperlalady , the only shipping service and company offered in seller's listing was priority shipping and that's what the seller was supposed to have used. 

The seller could have offered buyers a choice of USPS or Fedex but if the buyer chose the USPS option when placing the order, that's how the seller should ship.

Sellers should offer the generic "standard shipping" without specifying a carrier if they want the flexibility of deciding who they want to use.  

EXAMPLES: 

This is an example in which the seller can choose the shipping company: 

This is an example in which the seller must use USPS. They can upgrade to Priority mail but the carrier is stated as and must be USPS: 

This is an example in which the seller must use Fedex: 

I wasn't able to easily find a listing that offered buyers a choice but when a specific company is named as the carrier, that's who the seller needs to use. 

[participatrophy]

Well sure but if an INAD comes into play, all bets are off anyway. 

Put yourself in OP's shoes here. "This seller was not allowed to do this" vs "Sellers are allowed to do this" sets up very different expectations going forward. 

[participatrophy]

Their word choice isn't confusing on this one though. If anything they seem to go out of their way to avoid ambiguity. I think that's what the sticking point is for me. 

[laperlalady]

Thank you all for your thoughts!  Haven’t been able to get online until now so was hoping for a response…and, I have so many!

Just to clarify — the only shipping option was USPS Priority. 

I would have been happy with Ground Advantage — simply did not want FedEx or UPS. 

I did send another message to the seller last night but still no response. 

Order #2 is still in transit so I will wait for that package to arrive before leaving feedback and/or requesting call back from CS. 

Appreciate all the responses!

[house*of*paws]

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@participatrophy wrote:

Well sure but if an INAD comes into play, all bets are off anyway. 

Put yourself in OP's shoes here. "This seller was not allowed to do this" vs "Sellers are allowed to do this" sets up very different expectations going forward. 

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Speaking of expectations …..

The Shipping section under Site Map begins by saying:  “Sellers must use the shipping method the buyer selected during eBay checkout.”

It later states that the reason for this policy is so buyers know ‘what to expect.’

While it is true that eBay doesn’t specifically define ‘shipping method’ anywhere in that section … I would find it difficult to argue that using FedEx (when a buyer has chosen USPS Priority) is meeting a buyer’s expectations.

As this OP has pointed out … it can be the carrier that the buyer considers more important than the ‘speed of delivery’ … so using a ‘method’ with equivalent speed (but different shipping company) is unacceptable.  Other buyers may be interested only in the speed, and couldn’t care less about the shipping company used.

There was a time when I specifically avoided buying from sellers who used UPS for two reasons:

1) Their drivers typically ignored my in-writing request to deliver only to my back gate … instead leaving packages by my front door, in very easy reach of porch pirates.

2) Their drivers also seemed to be  especially prone to breaking stuff.

It never would have occurred to me that a seller might use UPS if it showed USPS or FedEx under ‘Shipping & Handling’.

It just seems common-sensical that sellers should ALWAYS ‘check with the buyer’ before making any changes in shipping … regardless of how carefully eBay may use certain terms.

[johnrj1226]

The seller is responsible for getting the buyers  purchase to the buyer in the same condition as was advertise and with in the estimated delivery times advertised - the carrier is not guaranteed - could have been a shipping cost thing or other reason for the switcheroo..- Seller  eats the shipping costs  e  received packages from  USPS, Fed Ex at our home all the time when we  weren't  around.

As long as you received the  items in good condition all is well that ends well..

If a buyer has special needs it would seem to me it would incumbent to work the details out in advance of paying...

[janet9988]

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@kibble-net wrote:

If the seller can't be bothered to respond to messages, and ships with a different carrier than the one advertised, the best recourse is to let others know via the feedback system.

Unfortunately I don't think they are breaking any rules. If they shipped with a slower method than what you paid for, then there is an issue. But switching one expedited service for another, or one standard service for another, while sometimes inconvenient for the buyer, is not an outright violation of any rules that I'm aware of.

That being said it's unprofessional to do this without asking the buyer's permission first. I wouldn't buy from them and I'd certainly alert potential buyers with appropriate FB.

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The buyer did NOT get the SAME service if the carrier could not deliver the item to the buyers address. USPS would have delivered to the buyers locked mailbox. 

[participatrophy]

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@house*of*paws wrote:

The Shipping section under Site Map begins by saying:  “Sellers must use the shipping method the buyer selected during eBay checkout.”

It later states that the reason for this policy is so buyers know ‘what to expect.’

While it is true that eBay doesn’t specifically define ‘shipping method’ anywhere in that section

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That's the sort of verbiage I was looking for, thank you! "Shipping method" = "shipping service" + "shipping carrier". The policy pages make that clear. Where are you looking exactly, can you link me to the page where you're seeing that line you quoted?

[house*of*paws]

@participatrophy  / @christworks 

I’m on my phone … so can’t provide a link.  Try this:

1) Click on Site Map at the very bottom of the screen.

2) Scroll waaaay down the screen to Help topics (left side; near bottom) … and click on A-Z Policy Index.

3) Find Shipping under S, and start reading there.  🙂

NOTE:  I misremembered that sentence I tried to quote in my last post.  It actually says ‘shipping service’ … rather than ‘shipping method’ … but reading the whole section didn’t give me the impression that eBay was saying that the different services were interchangeable.  

[The part mentioning something like ‘meeting buyers expectations’ is what clinched it for me … but you might disagree.]

[christworks]

 @participatrophy 

I scrolled to the bottom of this page and clicked on "site map."  I did not see a "section" titled "Shipping" after clicking on "site map."  Under the options that displayed, I clicked on "Shipping Options." I was directed to this page. 

There was no mention of the line @house*of*paws  quoted. Near the top, I did see the following text aimed at sellers: 

"Whether you’ve just sold your first or thousandth item, make sure you take advantage of all the benefits available to you as an eBay seller. We designed our eBay Labels service to make shipping a seamless experience. You can choose your preferred carrier, save money and grow your sales by shipping internationally"

This paragraph specifically addresses buying the shipping label. It clearly puts the decision regarding what carrier to select squarely in the hands of the seller. Though eBay could have easily stated the seller must choose the the carrier the buyer selects, they didn't. I also note that eBay could easily block out all services offered by carriers the buyer didn't select, but they don't. They still give sellers the final call when printing the label, because eBay recognizes there are times when sellers may need to select a different carrier. It is the seller's preferred carrier. No mention of the buyer. Buyers by a service, not a carrier. 

Again - that's not to say a seller should not first check with their buyer. They absolutely should. But, it definitely isn't a requirement and no one has yet provided definitive proof that it is against policy to swap carriers on a buyer.  Everything I've quoted in this thread points to the exact opposite.

The seller has created a customer service problem because they did not check with the buyer first and have not responded to the buyer's messages.  That is not the same as violating policy.

Downgrading the service is definitely a violation of policy and is a valid reason to report the seller. That action robs the buyer of something they paid for.  If the seller sent the items FedEx 2 Day, that is equivalent to USPS Priority Mail so the seller did not rob the buyer of anything simply because they changed carriers. 

I acknowledge it made for a terrible inconvenience for @laperlalady and I think good customer service would be to acknowledge their problem and seek out a solution.  I think this is an appropriate place for the buyer to leave the seller negative feedback since the buyer has tried multiple times to get the seller's attention, and they seemingly don't care.