eBay

room-17 · ‎10-27-2021

I'm dealing with one of the worst customers I've had in all my years selling. Sent a CD from San Diego to LA by media mail on Oct 18, the same day he placed the order. Tracking progressed until Oct 20, where it shows to be at a postal facility in his zip code. Since Oct 20 there has been no updates on the tracking. USPS says it's arriving late but still in transit. 9449008205498264264325

Just 4 days after mailing, on Oct 22, buyer opened a case of item not received. Much too early if you ask me. We have exchanged a few messages where I have explained that delays are not too uncommon, especially now that the postmaster has announced he's slowed down the mail since Oct 1. I mail 3-400 packages a year and sometimes unusual delays happen, as much as 6 weeks after shipment. Please be patient, I'm confident it will arrive as have all of my delayed packages.

He's not having any of it. He insists that it's lost and wants a refund by Oct 28 or will ask ebay to step in. That will be 10 days after it was mailed. (He could inquire at his PO about it since that's where the tracking stalled.) Our message exchanges have gotten heated. He thinks I'm messing with him and he's bullying me into a refund, getting hostile and threatening neg feedback. I don't care about the bad feedback, I'll factually reply and make him look bad. I'm more concerned about ebay forcing the refund and hitting me with a "case closed without seller resolution" mark and loss of my FVF. And him getting his money back and eventually receiving the package. And when it does arrive, will he send it back, quietly keep it, pay it again, or apologize for his horrible behaviour?

Any advice would be appreciated.

kensgiftshop · ‎10-27-2021

@room-17

if tracking shows movement in the last 10 days, they might put the case on hold for a few days to see if it's gets delivered.

if it doesn't, then they refund the buyer.

Have a great day.

orangehound · ‎10-27-2021

@room-17 wrote:
I'm more concerned about ebay forcing the refund and hitting me with a "case closed without seller resolution" mark and loss of my FVF. And him getting his money back and eventually receiving the package.

If the buyer escalates, eBay will notice that it is not moving through the USPS and then all the bad things you mentioned above will happen ... if the package is showing movement, then eBay has been known to extend their deadline for a seller responding. But, your package doesn't appear to be moving ...

@room-17 wrote:
And when it does arrive, will he send it back, quietly keep it, pay it again, or apologize for his horrible behaviour?

It depends on the person. You are right, however, that the buyer will most likely get the package ... but the buyer is under no obligation to repay you or return the item.

Slow/stagnant delivery, and the types of claims you are involved with, is the downside to Media Mail. That is the service you chose to use, and it looks like it is coming back to bite you. Unless one is shipping a bunch of cheap, heavy books, I would think First Class is a better idea.

magic*moonbeams · ‎10-27-2021

If they opened a case, I would very bluntly state in a message really to eBay, not so much the buyer in this "item not received" dispute... that if they are going to deem it unacceptable for the buyer to not have their money nor the item... then it is equally unacceptable for eBay to then put you in that same situation they just deemed unacceptable for the buyer to be in and make YOU have to refund for an item you have proof of shipping. By making you refund, that puts you in the exact spot the buyer is in right now, no item because you shipped it and then no money. Because eventually, the item WILL be delivered to the buyer and at that point, they would then have the money and the item, and that's not how transactions are to work.

Sellers are not second class citizens/users of this site. It takes 2 people to be in a transaction. If it's not ok for one person to not have the money or the item, it's equally not ok for the other person to not have their money or the item.

patsach_0 · ‎10-27-2021

yes, sellers have to refund

popblox · ‎10-27-2021

If you voluntarily refund the buyer before an INR case is escalated to eBay and the item is delivered within 30 days of the case being closed, you are eligible for reimbursement from eBay on appeal.

If the buyer escalates the case first, or if you refund the buyer without an INR case being opened, you are not eligible for reimbursement from eBay on appeal (more details here).

px_455 · ‎10-27-2021

@popblox wrote:
If you voluntarily refund the buyer before an INR case is escalated to eBay and the item is delivered within 30 days of the case being closed, you are eligible for reimbursement from eBay on appeal.

This has not been our collective experience, have you actually won such an appeal and been reimbursed by eaby after having refunded a buyer on an INR case?

toomanyartistsphotography · ‎10-27-2021

I didn’t think eBay would let them open a case that early. That’s crazy.

orangehound · ‎10-28-2021

@px_455 wrote:
@popblox wrote:
If you voluntarily refund the buyer before an INR case is escalated to eBay and the item is delivered within 30 days of the case being closed, you are eligible for reimbursement from eBay on appeal.
This has not been our collective experience, have you actually won such an appeal and been reimbursed by eaby after having refunded a buyer on an INR case?

@px_455

Historically, eBay hasn't paid for these types of appeals. But, if you read through the thread that popblox linked, you will see that he was reimbursed just as he said.

eBay has a lot of unpublished policies that are discovered simply by trial and error, and the occasional interaction with an eBay employee ... but, what popblox experienced a few months ago may not still be the policy today, because unpublished policies seem to be eBay testing certain ideas, or addressing short-term problems (such as USPS clog-ups due to COVID). Still, we won't know unless we try, and it doesn't hurt to appeal an "Item Not Received" decision if the package is eventually delivered.

soh.maryl · ‎10-28-2021

What is the last estimated delivery date? Buyer can't open an INR case until 24 hours after that.

"I don't care about the bad feedback, I'll factually reply and make him look bad." Not a good idea.

px_455 · ‎10-28-2021

@orangehound wrote:
@px_455 wrote:
@popblox wrote:
If you voluntarily refund the buyer before an INR case is escalated to eBay and the item is delivered within 30 days of the case being closed, you are eligible for reimbursement from eBay on appeal.
This has not been our collective experience, have you actually won such an appeal and been reimbursed by eaby after having refunded a buyer on an INR case?
@px_455
Historically, eBay hasn't paid for these types of appeals. But, if you read through the thread that popblox linked, you will see that he was reimbursed just as he said.

eBay has a lot of unpublished policies that are discovered simply by trial and error, and the occasional interaction with an eBay employee ... but, what popblox experienced a few months ago may not still be the policy today, because unpublished policies seem to be eBay testing certain ideas, or addressing short-term problems (such as USPS clog-ups due to COVID). Still, we won't know unless we try, and it doesn't hurt to appeal an "Item Not Received" decision if the package is eventually delivered.

That is very true, or policies that don't work as interpreted by most people...

What I recall is going through this very issue years ago, and trying every imaginable "option" as concerns INR cases and appeals and refunds, and the outcome being negative for the seller every time.

Granted, something may have changed.

I was just wondering, I may keep this in mind the next time this particular situation arises on my end.

popblox · ‎10-28-2021

@orangehound wrote:
@px_455 wrote:
@popblox wrote:
If you voluntarily refund the buyer before an INR case is escalated to eBay and the item is delivered within 30 days of the case being closed, you are eligible for reimbursement from eBay on appeal.
This has not been our collective experience, have you actually won such an appeal and been reimbursed by eaby after having refunded a buyer on an INR case?
@px_455
Historically, eBay hasn't paid for these types of appeals. But, if you read through the thread that popblox linked, you will see that he was reimbursed just as he said.

what popblox experienced a few months ago may not still be the policy today

Yes, I have @px_455, at least 5 times (every time) since my original post.

Thank you, @orangehound. The policy is active as recent as my last INR on 10/5 - if handled correctly, the confirmation of reimbursement from eBay will come via a message that says "An automated payment has been initiated from eBay".

room-17 · ‎10-28-2021

Good news. The package has movement today, it's out for delivery.

room-17 · ‎10-28-2021

Good point. But buyers have the upper hand these days and there is too much meddling in our business now.

room-17 · ‎10-28-2021

I believe I saw the estimate as 10-21 initially, but now it's showing 10-28 in the order details. Maybe that's how he was able to open a case on 10-22. And it is now slated to arrive today. However I wish ebay would eliminate those estimates as they cause more problems for sellers. Some buyers view them as a guarantee and it encourages them to open cases.