How to respond to a return made outside of eBay rules

[woodjim]

I need some help here; already posted this, no answers, maybe I put it in the wrong place.  Anyway...

A buyer purchased an item from me, received it, couldn't make it work and decided to return it through eBay's normal return process. The buyer subsequently figured out the problem, seemed satisfied with the purchase, and kept the item past eBay's 30-day return window. A few days after the return window closed, I was advised by eBay that the return process was not completed, that the buyer's dispute was found in my (seller's) favor, and that no refund is required.  Case closed.

But the buyer then decided to return the item after all and has it on the way directly back to me outside of eBay. Moreover, the buyer indicated to me (in writing!) that he would dispute the sale with his credit card company and obtain a refund that way, rather than initiating a second eBay return case. At this point I asked eBay what to do and got an automated answer that "if the item is indeed returned [I should] refund the buyer." But my eBay payout, which I did already receive, would not be a full refund to the buyer, as eBay has retained the Transaction Fee, sales tax collected and shipping charges.

So what do I do? If I accept the item back, do I refund my payout amount and retain the item?  That wouldn't be fair.  And if the buyer does initiate a credit card dispute, will the credit card company come after me or after eBay for reimbursement? I'm beginning to wonder if this buyer is perhaps attempting a scam to get double-refunded on this purchase. Something smells fishy here and I'm not at all sure what to do. I've been unable to find a direct channel to fully explain this situation to a real person at eBay for further, non-automated advice. What do i do next?

[mtgraves7984]

@woodjim 

Here's your other thread. You posted on the Mentor Board and it doesn't get as many eyeballs. 👀

How to handle a return made directly, outside of e... - The eBay Community

Sit back and wait for more information than you'll want to digest. But... you've come to the right place! Good luck.

[tobaccocardyahoo]

If you can find a way to refund through Ebay, Ebay will deduct its fees from the amount you are charged.

If the buyer opens a chargeback dispute and wins, and he probably will, Ebay will not deduct the fees and will add a $20 charge for losing a chargeback dispute.

[sdneped]

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@woodjim wrote:

But my eBay payout, which I did already receive, would not be a full refund to the buyer, as eBay has retained the Transaction Fee, sales tax collected and shipping charges. 

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You've parsed that correctly, @woodjim. A seller has only 30 days to cancel and refund with eBay chipping in.

After that and in a payment dispute, eBay won't chip in and

-- you will refund the entire payment from the buyer, which includes eBay fees, shipping, and sales tax

1. if you agree to refund for the dispute, or

2. plus another $20 if you challenge the dispute and lose (you will lose).

[house*of*paws]

Hi @woodjim 

When you receive the item back … then refund in full.  eBay will add on their fees and the tax they collected to the amount you’re able to refund.  [The most you’ll be charged is the $.40 transaction fee.]

There won’t be anything for buyer’s credit card company to refund … as the money will have already been paid out to the buyer.

You keep the item … and can relist it if you wish.

[woodjim]

Thanks for that h-o-p, and for a regular return through eBay that is what I'd do.  But the second request for return, after the initial request expired, wasn't made through eBay, and all I have to return to the buyer is the final payout amount eBay sent me.  So, would that be the extent of my obligation?  Will the buyer then ask eBay for the difference, including tax that eBay collected?  As far as eBay is concerned, when the first request for return expired they marked the case closed.  Still stymied.

[house*of*paws]

@woodjim 

As far as I know, clicking on the ‘Refund’ link in your eBay account  will trigger the release of ALL the money the buyer originally paid … including whatever amount eBay withheld from your payout.

The only money the buyer will be out is the amount they spent on postage to return the item.

The buyer won’t be able to leave feedback because the original return request was closed in your favor.

[BTW, sorry we missed your post on the Mentor Board.   😳]

[woodjim]

Again, h.o.p., had the buyer returned the item within the return window, that's what I would have done.  But once eBay closed the case (because he did not complete the return in time) and decided the case in my favor, the Refund link is no longer available within my account... unless I'm not looking in the right place.

I was just this morning able to get the automated agent to acknowledge this transaction, and among a lot of circular and repetitive boilerplate, the bot did make these two statements:  1) Refunds handled outside of eBay are no longer eligible for eBay Money Back Guarantee;  2) This case is closed. The decision is final and can't be appealed.

The Assistant bot was able to give me the option of contacting eBay Customer Service by email, which I have now done, explaining my plight as best I can.  An answer is promised within a few days; maybe I can get an official, definitive answer finally.  Thanks to you and the others who have responded; I will indeed post my final solution here.

[nenu-5410]

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@woodjim wrote:

But the second request for return, after the initial request expired, wasn't made through eBay, and all I have to return to the buyer is the final payout amount eBay sent me.

So, would that be the extent of my obligation? Will the buyer then ask eBay for the difference, including tax that eBay collected? 

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When you pay for your lobster dinner on your credit card, all the issuer sees is $67.89 with no clue what was your sales tax or tip. It's just one, all-inclusive charge.

Likewise when your buyer files a payment dispute for e.g. $330, the dispute does not line-item the $300, $20, and $10 in that total: You are required to repay the entire $330 with no reduction of that amount for eBay fees or sales tax, money you didn't receive.

So @woodjim you'll be paying MORE than "the final payout amount eBay sent me" from out-of-(your)-pocket, regardless getting the item back.

[krazzykats]

Return for a refund.  If the credit card dispute is filed, you may lose both your item and money.

Or you could end up paying additional chargeback fees, and losing the above. 

Cut your losses now, and get your item back. 

Hopefully, it will be intact and you can repair whatever is wrong and resell it later.

[woodjim]

Nenu-5410, your analogy using the lobster dinner is understandable, although not the same, in that I am in the position of the guy who supplies the restaurant with the lobster, so it's the restaurant that is liable.  In this case, the card issuer would seek payback from the recipient of the credit card funds, which is eBay.  Of course eBay has direct access to my bank account and could certainly debit my account for the full credit card amount, but I can't believe that they would be so short-sighted or evil as do that, it just doesn't make sense. What would seem sensible and fair would be to pull the payout amount back out of my account and themselves refund the Transaction Fee (their cut of the sale), plus the sales tax collected, which they can debit from sales tax revenue for that state.

[kitschy*loot]

How would they lose the item and the money when the item is already on the way back to them? 

[woodjim]

Thanks, KK; item delivered by UPS just now. Checks out 100%, both operationally and cosmetically.  Whew.  Although I have not yet been asked for a refund, I have no problem in sending the buyer what I received from this sale-gone-wrong, but still think any balance would be eBay's responsibility.

[12345jamesstamps]

A credit card dispute from a buyer...usually the buyer gets refunded through eBay since the bank is taking care of it...eBay steps back and does nothing and you will be answering in eBay about the situation to a bank. 

Most buyers don't even return anything...and wonder if it indeed will be returned.

What can you do? You will be dealing with a bank...and how the buyer disputes it will matter...but usually the buyer wins in the long run. If you dispute it you might get charged another $20. by the bank.

I would do nothing until it really happens...let buyer open a claim and take it from there.

But, as many here do nothing sometimes...they get a negative feedback.

I would refund if item is received...and leave it at that...worrying about nickel and dime transaction fee, sales tax and shipping charges...or what feedback is received by the buyer.

Curious...are you selling the same thing again?...already...rather strange.

[woodjim]

Thanks for your input, 12345.  Actually, the Transaction Fee, tax, etc. isn't 'nickel and dime' but close to a hundred bucks in this case.  True, not a fortune, but enough to leave a very bad taste in my mouth should the scenario proceed as you and other members in this thread predict.  I can't see how eBay would "step back" in an instance such as this, as they are the entity that the card company dealt with, the initial and direct recipients of the card company's funds, a decent portion of which they retained for themselves and for the buyer's taxing authority.  And, no, I have not resold this item, and certainly would not do so until this situation is finally put to bed.  If the credit card company does ask me to reimburse them, perhaps I'll simply send them the item so that they can list it... on eBay, of course.