Empty return scam

[potero63]

Be me...

Receive notice of a return, okay, that's fine.

Customer mails the same day... wow! A real pro.

Return arrives, its a used medical mask, and not the $170  item I was expecting. Hmmm.

It's New Year's Eve, no eBay support staff to talk to, I have 2 days. ???

Look for some way to resolve this with eBay and "Report Bad Buyer". Watch message disappear into an apparent black hole?

Talk to eBay support on January 2nd (the day I must issue the refund). They suggest that I let the request expire, then see if the buyer opens a new request at which point eBay will step in. IDK, does it work that way? not sure, but I'll try. lol

January 3 the refund is automatically issued, and now the "case is closed" and I cannot appeal it. Okay then.

So... how, exactly, was this suppose to go???

[potero63]

Um, let's see.

* First one went to Montana to a buyer that claims to be from the US, account registered on 7/10/2024.

* Second one went to New Mexico to a buyer that claims to be from Australia, account registered on 7/10/24 also.

* Third one went to Tennessee to a buyer that claims to be from the US, account registered on 8/10/24.

I ship in a double bag. Have never had problems with the packaging.

[buyselljack2016]

I take it you are talking about a black face mask.

That scam has been posted about.

Seems to be running rampant.  

[potero63]

It actually wasn't a black facemask, just the standard blue thing that we all wore for a couple years during covid.

[potero63]

first return with a mask:

First return with the mask...

Second return with a nice Thank You note:

Second return with a nice Thank You note

[trickcomputer]

This is the legacy of decades of million dollar clown leaders.    Customer has been effectively weaponized against sellers. 

Sellers are, and will continue to be the bad guys.  Sellers were more effectively monetized by past scumbags.  They were the low hanging fruit in the early days, when eBay had little competition.  These degenerates made millions and cost sellers on this platform BILLIONS.

Customer service is worthless, but you can bet the eBay “heroes” got their Form 4s filed on time and approved by the board of bigger dirtbags STILL at eBay.

Wait till some “community” sophist twit starts telling you to go to X, Facebook and Instagram, to get help on eBay. Issues  Talk about not taking ownership of your customers’ needs and passing the buck to the SV inbred club.  Talk about diluting corporate responsibility.  

[potero63]

Well, maybe that's the case, it's certainly the case with many aspects of modern society... however, there are still people on eBay selling things like .999 fine silver coins. My question is how do they manage to keep selling?

So I am thinking this:

First, profile my orders by account info sorta like this:

• 0 or few feedback
• Older-ish, like 5 to 12 months old. Created-the-day-of-the-order accounts used to make me nervous, but have always been great customers for me...
• Ordering my large volume product
• Account name / location does not match billing or shipping name / location

Second, just give them a call before I ship to get the vibe.

Third, cancel the order if I can't connect the dots.

Is this the right voodoo? Anyone else do this?

[fbusoni]

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@potero63 wrote:

Well, maybe that's the case, it's certainly the case with many aspects of modern society... however, there are still people on eBay selling things like .999 fine silver coins. My question is how do they manage to keep selling?

So I am thinking this:

First, profile my orders by account info sorta like this:

• 0 or few feedback
• Older-ish, like 5 to 12 months old. Created-the-day-of-the-order accounts used to make me nervous, but have always been great customers for me...
• Ordering my large volume product
• Account name / location does not match billing or shipping name / location

Second, just give them a call before I ship to get the vibe.

Third, cancel the order if I can't connect the dots.

Is this the right voodoo? Anyone else do this?

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@potero63 

Three empty boxes in rapid succession to me sounds like you are getting a reputation amongst thieves as an easy target.

I am no expert, but I don't think the price of your beans will have any particular impact on the rate at which criminals purchase from you.   Perhaps you will make more money by selling in greater volume, and by doing so, perhaps be better able to absorb the periodic losses that all sellers experience here.

As a general rule it's not a good idea to cancel orders; you will get hit with transaction defects  and you could lose your account in pretty short order.

Nor is it a necessarily a good idea to make a phone call to a buyer -- you do not know if the person on the other end of the line is compos mentis and how they will react to an unsolicited call; they might decide to leave you with negative feedback even if they are happy with the item received. 

Would a street vendor take a chance at stealing from you?  I'm not sure.  Perhaps a distributor to street vendors?   I find it difficult to envision an average homeowner buying beans and sending back an face mask... but after reading these forums for the last 9 months or so, it seems that almost anything can happen on this wretched platform.

I'm no expert on coins, but the ones you refer to are most likely mass produced fakes.   Have you seen the massive rolls of brand new forever stamps that sell for a few bucks?  All fakes. 

eBay's philosophy is to allow any vermin onto this platform who wants to sell, then let the chips (or in your case, the beans) fall where they may.

[stephenmorgan]

If you can prove you did not receive back what you sent eBay will sometimes find in your favor.  What was the reason for their return?

For $170, is that for 5 pounds of nuts?  The shipping envelope that was sent to you is it big enough that it would hold 5 pounds of nuts?

Is is possible to find out from your USPS what was the weigh of the envelope?  I can not see that mask with the envelope weighing 4 ounces.  Demonstrating to eBay the weight of what you received is not even close to the weight of what you sent may help your appeal.

I can see Albuquerque NM on the envelope.  Is that where you sent it to?

[potero63]

Easy Target: Yes, I assume that despite the fact that the packages went to various locations, the scammer is the same person. Not sure how, but... whatever.

Cancel Orders: I this true, that canceling orders will affect my account? Is there something I can lookup about this?

Phone Call: I will only call buyers that meet all the other suspicious criteria. At that point I expect I will either get a person that has no knowledge whatsoever of the order, or I will get no answer. Either way, that's good enough for me to cancel.

Mass produced fake coins: They are still silver, and the prices just don't allow that much wiggle room. Mass produced stamps are different.

[potero63]

5lb Bag size: Right, there is no way 5lbs of nuts would have fit in any of the bags. Maybe 8oz.

eBay might decide: I don't think so. After speaking with support a couple times on the issues now, I basically said, "So I will always ship my product at 50% off if the buyer claims defect and returns nothing?" and support said, "A partial refund is your best approach.", basically she said, "Yup, 50% off, baby!"

I guess this is fine. Every platform has rules, and that's just part of the game. That's why I am going to try the profile thing. We'll see how it goes.

[stephenmorgan]

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@potero63 wrote:

5lb Bag size: Right, there is no way 5lbs of nuts would have fit in any of the bags. Maybe 8oz.

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That is what I would be advising eBay of to demonstrate that this was a scam.

I see the envelope has two tracking numbers?  They both document the same trip that them nuts went to NORTH HOUSTON TX DISTRIBUTION CENTER , PALMETTO, GA 30268 , ATLANTA GA DISTRIBUTION CENTER  then back to PALMETTO, GA 30268, to DALLAS, TX 75211, to ALBUQUERQUE NM DISTRIBUTION CENTER  and then to GALLUP, NM 87301. 

That seems like a lot of traveling if they were coming from Albuquerque NM.  It is less that 150 miles between Albuquerque and Gallup.  I just wonder if they were actual mailed from Albuquerque or is it normal when you receive something from Albuquerque it would go to Texas first?

[potero63]

lol... that is some master sleuthing right there. Yeah, its only 150 miles from ABQ to me. So, yeah, unless it was some bizarre ultra-low freight cost AI route (which does exist), that is the wrong route.

I have yet another package to talk over with eBay support, so, I'll bring that up. I am pretty sure that will not make any difference, however. idk

I'll try. Thanks for the info.

[potero63]

Okay, I got the next return, and guess what? Same origin post office: NORTH HOUSTON TX DISTRIBUTION CENTER. Thanks, @stephenmorgan for helping me figure that out! So far I shipped to 3 different states, but the returns all posted from that Houston post office. Interesting.

I think I handled this one better though. On the return request, there was a "Take Action" button. I had no idea what that was for, but the following page mentioned it as a way to get eBay to step in:

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/ask-ebay-to-step-in?id=4702

Ah ha... nice. So filling out the form that followed allowed me to turn the return into a case. We will see what happens with this one.

Thank you all for your help and insight!

[stephenmorgan]

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@potero63 wrote:

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/ask-ebay-to-step-in?id=4702

Ah ha... nice. So filling out the form that followed allowed me to turn the return into a case. We will see what happens with this one.

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Not sure that will help you much.  eBay pretty much sees item was delivered and then they give a refund to the buyer.  Once they do that then you can appeal their decision and provide them with the proof that the items were not returned.  The shipping envelope being the wrong size and the weight being way off should help you.  That odd stuff with the shipping may help but I am not sure.  

[fbusoni]

@potero63 

You can read about cancellation policies here:

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-performance-policy?id=4347

Cancelling an order -- whether for an upstanding citizen or a dirtbag criminal -- is a "bad buyer experience" in eBay's book.  And believe me, eBay does not / not have the time to investigate your claims or mine about real or imagined improprieties in the buyer's particulars.

Of course, you are certainly free to call buyers, but then you run into the cancellation issue.   Sort of a Catch-22.

As for coins, the fakes I am aware of have no real silver in them.  Yet American buyers, from what I have seen, scoop them up as though they are getting a bargain.