mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
Hi eBay Sellers!
This Wednesday, join us here for another Community Chat dedicated to the topic of Seller Protection.
The Seller Protection team will be here to answer questions submitted between 1-2 pm PT. During the chat hour, eBay staff will answer your questions in real-time. At 2 pm, the thread will close. We'll work through any unanswered questions after 2 pm.
See you then!
How the Q&A chat works:
This discussion thread will open for replies at 1 pm PT. When the thread opens, you can ask questions by clicking the 'Reply' button.
@mikeyjt_123 wrote:
@vrykalak wrote:[9Oct, #68, #81] no seller recourse for false return
"the reason the buyers selected when opening the return is the information that determines our decision." Nothing else matters.
- description may be perfect
- buyer may admit in an email that the item was exactly as described
- item returned may be totally different from the one sent
- or item returned may be damaged or otherwise unusable
Nothing matters but what the buyer claimed.
In what universe can that be called "Seller Protection"?Hi @vrykalak - Thanks for your note, and can appreciate the sentiment you're communicating here. You've touched on a few of the really key areas where we are working to improve - let me tackle each of your points:
- if your description is perfect and the buyer is admitting that it is as described, but has chosen a 'not as described' return reason, we consider this abuse. When you report the buyer in this scenario, we will examine the buyer account, and you will be eligible for a False Item-Not-As-Described invoice credit.
- if a buyer returns an item that is totally different than the one you sent, we consider this fraudulent. In this case, you should contact us for resolution
- if an item is returned to you used or damaged, you have access to give the buyer a partial refund and withhold up to 50% of the value of the item to recover the diminished value resulting from the buyers alterations
Thanks!
Great in theory but doesn't work in practice. Just a couple weeks ago on the Weekly Chat another member described a return they had. It was for a fragrance. The pic the buyer had in the return request was of the proper fragrance sent as it was clearly a black bottle. When the bottle arrived back to the supplier [the seller was a drop shipper], they sent them a pic of what was received. It was a white bottle and nothing they sell or even have ever had in stock.
That seller asked Ebay to step in since they had expert 3rd party evidence as to what was actually received. Their request was denied and found in the favor of the buyer and the seller had to refund 100% of the product. So Ebay allowed this buyer to openly break the rules [MBG] and rewarded them. This buyer has the product and their money.
That is how it is working in application.
I do understand how it should work, the problem is that it isn't working.
@dentalsales4u wrote:
I have held back part of a buyers refund in the past for used returns, but I don't recall seeing where I could do that on this one.
I figured it was due to the claim stated item was defective.
WHOA! I haven't had the need to issue a partial refund to a buyer at this point, but are you saying that the reason a buyer selects for a return drives whether a qualified seller has the ability to issue a partial refund???
@mtnbkr96 wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:I’d like to discuss the current policy on the condition of an item being returned. I have concern over a policy that has been re-written, significantly in my opinion.
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behavior-policies/condition-returned-items-policy?id=4763
While the MBG still states the following, the above policy seems to override the MBG.
Fraudulent claims and abusive buyer behavior
Buyers who engage in activity as described in the Abusive buyer policy may be subject to a range of actions, including the loss of eBay Money Back Guarantee coverage, issuing warnings to buyers, blocking buyers from requesting returns or refunds on eBay, blocking buyers from opening claims, and account suspension.
Activity that is not allowed includes, but is not limited to:
- A buyer opening duplicate requests using other buyer protection programs
- A buyer colluding with a seller to wrongly declare an item's value for customs
- A buyer filing a chargeback after receiving a refund
- A buyer claiming an item was not received when there is proof of delivery to the buyer's address on the Order details page
- A buyer falsely claiming an item was not as described
- A buyer returning an item other than the original item received
- A buyer using or damaging an item and then returning it
In application if a seller has a return they have received and it is not the same item shipped, the seller asks Ebay to step in because of this and gives Ebay the evidence that the item received was not what was shipped, Ebay rules in favor of the buyer and the seller loses the entire payment from the buyer.
In appeal, the seller still loses.
Instead we are being advised that we should have refund less a discount, up to 50% to the buyer. What kind of resolution is that? The seller is still out money when the buyer decided to ship back something that was never shipped to them in the first place by the seller and Ebay isn’t supporting the seller or the rules as published.
Hi mam98031,
Thanks for your question. There are a couple of things I would like to point out.
Partial refunds are designed as a remedy for when a buyer uses or damages an item and then returns it. In this case the seller can deduct up to 50% from the refund because the item still has value. If a buyer returns a different item, this is not the time to give the buyer a refund of any amount. This is when you should ask eBay to step in.
We are aware of the challenges when you ask eBay to step in and we are working on a fix. Sellers should not be penalized for asking eBay to step in.
Great, that was done. Ebay was asked to step in. The seller was forced to keep the counterfeit item shipped back by the buyer and fully refund the buyer.
Sorry, I'm running together a couple of posts here and that is sure to get confusing. On another post I shared a summary story of an item that was return which was not what was shipped. And Ebay stepped in and force the seller to fully refund the buyer. This was discussed a couple weeks [or maybe a little more] on the weekly chat and that seller got on support here either.
Here is a link to the chat that has more details.
@mtnbkr96 wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
@dentalsales4u wrote:
I have held back part of a buyers refund in the past for used returns, but I don't recall seeing where I could do that on this one.
I figured it was due to the claim stated item was defective.WHOA! I haven't had the need to issue a partial refund to a buyer at this point, but are you saying that the reason a buyer selects for a return drives whether a qualified seller has the ability to issue a partial refund???
It is the seller's eligibility for protections that determines if a seller can give a partial refund. Partial refunds can be given on item not as described returns as well as remorse returns. The reason the buyer selects for the return does not matter.
A partial refund should be given if the buyer uses or damages the item.
Good to hear. That was what I thought. Thank you.
Thank you for the feedback. There is some confusion around a Return that is used/damaged and a Fraudulent Return (wrong item). We are working with our Risk teams and our Customer Service folks to reiterate this distinction and ensure that sellers are protected in these instances. Examples like these help us identify and measure the problem - so we appreciate the feedback.
That is good news. What about those sellers that have already been financially damaged due to this not being handled in the way it should have been?
