Community Chat, October 16 @ 1:00 pm PT - Seller Protection

[tyler@ebay]

Hi eBay Sellers! 

This Wednesday, join us here for another Community Chat dedicated to the topic of Seller Protection.
 
The Seller Protection team will be here to answer questions submitted between 1-2 pm PT. During the chat hour, eBay staff will answer your questions in real-time. At 2 pm, the thread will close. We'll work through any unanswered questions after 2 pm.

See you then! 

How the Q&A chat works:

This discussion thread will open for replies at 1 pm PT. When the thread opens, you can ask questions by clicking the 'Reply' button.

[tyler@ebay]

Hi everyone - 

The chat is now open for your Seller Protection questions!

[vrykalak]

[9Oct, #68, #81] no seller recourse for false return
"the reason the buyers selected when opening the return is the information that determines our decision." Nothing else matters.
- description may be perfect
- buyer may admit in an email that the item was exactly as described
- item returned may be totally different from the one sent
- or item returned may be damaged or otherwise unusable
Nothing matters but what the buyer claimed.
In what universe can that be called "Seller Protection"?

[bestdealinparts]

Hello,

Regarding seller protection, I am dealing with two difficult return request right now, and no help in sight from eBay customer service.

1. I sold a halogen headlight, that will fit cars with halogen type headlights. Buyer opens return request for reason "Doesn't work or defective", but then in seller-buyer correspondence under the return request, writes that his car has HID xenon headlights, totally different plugs, different headlight. I let him know that nothing is wrong with the item, but it simply cannot work in his vehicle because it is not the correct fitment. Later on I even told him that I would eat the difference in price, but he needs to cover my initial shipping and pay for his return shipping sine it was not my fault. I also let him know that we have a xenon headlight available, but it is more expensive. Even though I correctly, and EVIDENTLY described my headlight in the listing, beginning with the title, and blue, bold letters, he keeps throwing blame on me for the incorrect fitment, tells me that eBay will solve his problem, that the return is my fault, ignores the fact that I have another headlight I can send as an exchange.

I call eBay CS, they side with me and tell me I am completely right, but even if the buyer admits black on white this is a remorse return, because of the original return code it cannot be changed (!!!), and I would have to take the item back and pay for shipping no matter what. I already knew that. I was told to appeal when I get the item back, to get the defect removed, the fees back and the return shipping credited. But I asked for my initial shipping back, and I was told no, because I offered free shipping. Shipping for such a large, heavy and expensive itam costs me ~$40 each way. Since eBay clearly sees the buyer is abusing the return policy but still won't do anything to actively protect me, why would not eBay offer me at least a courtesy credit for my initial shipping?

This is not a small envelope with $5 shipping, why should I eat the expensive cost of shipping because eBay, even with clear evidence, pushes me to lose money? I understand the cases where I don't have sufficient proof, but there are certain situations where the buyer gives himself up, why am I not protected against loss?

It is so easy for any scammer, or abusive buyer who wants to get out of assuming responsibility for their mistake, to make the seller lose money, why am I not being protected? I do understand that if the buyer abuses enough sellers and gets reported, he will suffer some consequences, but that takes time and for this to happen a certain number of sellers have to be at loss! Is this a fair and correct partnership, eBay? How many frustrated sellers have to complain for somebody to finally acknowledge that this is bad customer service on eBay's behalf regarding its customers (we, sellers are also your customers!).

And no, I cannot offer free returns, because even if I'd deduct the maximum amount allowed from the customer's refund, I'd still be at loss of money (again, shipping large, expensive items across the country is very expensive).

2. Second return is for item arrived damaged during shipping. The headlight's tab and housing looks cracked, and by what the 2 up-close photos the buyer sent, the box should have been really damaged for the headlight to really break like that.

I informed the buyer I'd open a FedEx insurance claim, but I need some clear photos of the item, packaging and box. At that point the buyer starts ignoring me. Days pass, today is the last day for me to accept the return.
I called CS:

- If I accept the return and the buyer ships the item back, I cannot open an insurance claim anymore since the item has been re-shipped, that invalidates my claim.
- I cannot open a claim anyway without the buyer sending me the requested photos, since they are required by FedEx, so what did paying for extra insurance serve me, if I cannot use it to recoup my money?

I understand accidents happen, that's why we are encouraged to insure our items. Most buyers send the requested evidence right away! But then you end up that an inconsiderate buyer who cares only about getting their money back, without consideration towards the seller. In cases of items damaged during shipping, the policy should be that the buyer HAS to upload evidence!

CS advised to not accept the return yet, and see what the buyer will do next, maybe he would finally upload photos, or if he calls and escalated the case, gets his return shipping label and returns the item thus invalidating my insurance claim, to call back eBay when i get the item back, and that eBay will reimburse me based on the fact that the buyer's actions made me lose my insurance.

Now, please let me know, is this correct/true, will eBay stand by what their representative told me, or when I call CS I'll be told to eat my loss, it's the cost of doing business? Somehow I feel a bad ending is coming to this case also.

Again, in cases of item damaged during shipping, the policy should be that the buyer HAS to upload evidence!!! Everybody asks for uploaded evidence from their customers in order to validate their claims, USPS does, FedEx, UPS, other stores all do, why not eBay?

And regarding my 1st return request, it's pointless to mention how disappointed I am with what eBay did (or didn't do) to also protect me against losing money when the evidence is clear that I'm dealing with abusive behavior, as their customer. CS told me that if enough sellers complain about a certain issue, that will start moving things around eventually. The thing is that we've been complaining about this exact issue since forever!

Thank you!

[mam98031]

I’d like to discuss the current policy on the condition of an item being returned.  I have concern over a policy that has been re-written, significantly in my opinion.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behavior-policies/condition-returned-items-policy?id=4763

While the MBG still states the following, the above policy seems to override the MBG.

Fraudulent claims and abusive buyer behavior

Buyers who engage in activity as described in the Abusive buyer policy may be subject to a range of actions, including the loss of eBay Money Back Guarantee coverage, issuing warnings to buyers, blocking buyers from requesting returns or refunds on eBay, blocking buyers from opening claims, and account suspension.

Activity that is not allowed includes, but is not limited to:

• A buyer opening duplicate requests using other buyer protection programs
• A buyer colluding with a seller to wrongly declare an item's value for customs
• A buyer filing a chargeback after receiving a refund
• A buyer claiming an item was not received when there is proof of delivery to the buyer's address on the Order details page
• A buyer falsely claiming an item was not as described
• A buyer returning an item other than the original item received
• A buyer using or damaging an item and then returning it

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

In application if a seller has a return they have received and it is not the same item shipped, the seller asks Ebay to step in because of this and gives Ebay the evidence that the item received was not what was shipped, Ebay rules in favor of the buyer and the seller loses the entire payment from the buyer.

In appeal, the seller still loses.

Instead we are being advised that we should have refund less a discount, up to 50% to the buyer.  What kind of resolution is that?  The seller is still out money when the buyer decided to ship back something that was never shipped to them in the first place by the seller and Ebay isn’t supporting the seller or the rules as published.

[golfingaddict]

Thank you to the seller protection team for the changes within the seller protection program

I have a question regarding the seller metrics that sellers are subject to and the way the percentages/peer comparison will be made.

If I am an honest seller (Of course I am) I will only use the new seller protection for Top Rated sellers when it is truly necessary.  i.e.  Buyer returns items claiming snad when in fact it is just a "did not fit" issue (which is the majority of my cases)

But if a not so honest seller makes those claims even when it is not appropriate, then the averages/percentages for my peers will be skewed.

Won't my percentage look like I am a "bad" seller?  Won't sellers that should be restricted due to a high rate of claims/cases, be able to invoke the new seller protection rules to protect from getting a high percentage?

I hope this makes sense.

As both a seller and a buyer, I have run into cases where a seller simply does not disclose flaws or issues with items and screams bloody murder calling me a bad buyer...    If/when I open a case, I am sure that they will report me and have the new protections invoked.  Where does that leave me as a buyer?  I am very concerned about buying on ebay now because I don't want to get kicked off ebay because sellers report me if I make cases/claims for not as described items.  (and yes there are bad sellers out there that don't seem to care but have enough volume to keep TRS)

Thank you.

[havemyfaves]

Is there any hope in the future for short durations to return? I'm still grieving the loss of the 3,5,7, 30 Day Durations for listings. Having to babysit my Good Til Cancelled listings is getting really old. I went from selling $2,000/mo to $200/mo. I'm still depressed over the GTC movement. 😞 So horrible.

[mam98031]

---

@vrykalak wrote:

[9Oct, #68, #81] no seller recourse for false return
"the reason the buyers selected when opening the return is the information that determines our decision." Nothing else matters.
- description may be perfect
- buyer may admit in an email that the item was exactly as described
- item returned may be totally different from the one sent
- or item returned may be damaged or otherwise unusable
Nothing matters but what the buyer claimed.
In what universe can that be called "Seller Protection"?

---

This is what I'm seeing too.  It is a rare unicorn decision for a seller to win when they try to dispute a return.  No matter the evidence to support the seller's position.  

Ebay appears to be wanting to funnel us into the discounted refund to the buyers instead.  Somehow seeing this as the best way to handle a return from a buyer.  No matter what the situation, if the item isn't what it should have been when returned, discounting the refund up to 50% is suppose to make things OK.

[dentalsales4u]

I had my first false INAD claim.
It cost me $30 shipping both ways.
Buyer opened claim stating item defective. Won't turn on or off.
No contact from buyer either.
I sent a label for free return as I don't use eBay's labels. This was an $815 item and I need to make sure there's a signature and insurance to cover my item.
When I get back, buyer hadn't even opened the batteries to install.
I offer free returns, so why the false claim?
I reported buyer and eBay did issue me a $6 shipping credit, but I'm still out $24 and a new open box item.
Why can't eBay do something to have the buyer contact seller first?
Why does eBay point the buyer to open a claim?
This is a problem that could have been easily remedied without the seller having to incur all the extra costs.

[mikeyjt_123]

---

@vrykalak wrote:

[9Oct, #68, #81] no seller recourse for false return
"the reason the buyers selected when opening the return is the information that determines our decision." Nothing else matters.
- description may be perfect
- buyer may admit in an email that the item was exactly as described
- item returned may be totally different from the one sent
- or item returned may be damaged or otherwise unusable
Nothing matters but what the buyer claimed.
In what universe can that be called "Seller Protection"?

---

Hi @vrykalak  - Thanks for your note, and can appreciate the sentiment you're communicating here.  You've touched on a few of the really key areas where we are working to improve - let me tackle each of your points:

- if your description is perfect and the buyer is admitting that it is as described, but has chosen a 'not as described' return reason, we consider this abuse.  When you report the buyer in this scenario, we will examine the buyer account, and you will be eligible for a False Item-Not-As-Described invoice credit.

- if a buyer returns an item that is totally different than the one you sent, we consider this fraudulent. In this case, you should contact us for resolution 

- if an item is returned to you used or damaged, you have access to give the buyer a partial refund and withhold up to 50% of the value of the item to recover the diminished value resulting from the buyers alterations

Thanks!

[alan@ebay]

---

@havemyfaves wrote:
Is there any hope in the future for short durations to return? I'm still grieving the loss of the 3,5,7, 30 Day Durations for listings. Having to babysit my Good Til Cancelled listings is getting really old. I went from selling $2,000/mo to $200/mo. I'm still depressed over the GTC movement. 😞 So horrible.

---

Hi @havemyfaves, 

Today's topic for discussion is Seller Protection. Please note that off-topic posts may be removed. 

There are no plans to reintroduce short durations for GTC. Please join a future 'General Topics Community Chat' and we can discuss challenges you're facing in detail. 

Thanks. 

[gracieallen01]

Hello Tyler,

Was the original post #4 moved to a different area?  I would be curious to see the response on that one - about the Halogen vs Xenon headlight return.

[mam98031]

---

@dentalsales4u wrote:
I had my first false INAD claim.
It cost me $30 shipping both ways.
Buyer opened claim stating item defective. Won't turn on or off.
No contact from buyer either.
I sent a label for free return as I don't use eBay's labels. This was an $815 item and I need to make sure there's a signature and insurance to cover my item.
When I get back, buyer hadn't even opened the batteries to install.
I offer free returns, so why the false claim?
I reported buyer and eBay did issue me a $6 shipping credit, but I'm still out $24 and a new open box item.
Why can't eBay do something to have the buyer contact seller first?
Why does eBay point the buyer to open a claim?
This is a problem that could have been easily remedied without the seller having to incur all the extra costs.

---

I think your problem is a great example.  I just have an additional couple of questions.

Did you issue them a discounted refund, since it is now an open box?  If you didn't, why not?

[golfingaddict]

I sell new in package, new with tags items.

The majority of my problem transactions are situations where the buyer claims not as described because the item does not fit (bigger than I thought....smaller than expected.. must be flawed because they don't fit like the ones I got last year even though they are the same size I always wore)

Most of the time the items are returned out of package, missing tags, packaging missing.  Most I cannot/will not resell (of course)  So with the new seller protections, is it true that I can withhold 50% of the refund and be reimbursed up to $6.00 for return shipping?

Can both be utilized?

And how does that get reported on my record?  I would guess this happens 8-10 times a year.

[tyler@ebay]

---

@gracieallen01 wrote:

Hello Tyler,

Was the original post #4 moved to a different area?  I would be curious to see the response on that one - about the Halogen vs Xenon headlight return.

---

Hi @gracieallen01  - we didn't have it moved, but I saw it briefly before it disappeared for me too. It may have been edited by the poster (I didn't catch who wrote it or I'd go find it there, lol). 

Hoping it pops back or the author shares it again!