VAT charged twice and eBay not responding

[lo23429]

Greetings,

I am based in France, made a purchase in the USA and was charged twice for the VAT (VAT amount is USD3000).
I used the dedicated link on eBay to submit a VAT refund request and got a speedy reply asking for various documents and proofs. I submitted all requested documents in my possession through several email exchanges with eBay staffs but in the end they decided something was still missing and they won't even reply to my emails anymore. We are talking about USD3K !
I'd love to explain the situation to some senior eBay staff, anyone from eBay reading this forum?

Thanks in advance

[monica-sells]

Just a suggestion...maybe the seller can help in some way?

also, I don't know enough about France regulations/taxes but the amount of VAT you paid at purchase is somewhere on the invoices that were with the parcel.

(but i think you know all this)

If the item is being shipped from outside the EU into an EU country, the buyer or recipient may need to pay VAT and customs duty.

As of 1 July 2021, eBay is required to collect VAT on certain orders delivered to EU addresses. For consignments where eBay does not collect taxes, or for orders above a certain value, buyers may need to pay additional import fees (e.g. VAT and duties) as part of clearing their parcel through customs, or when their order is delivered.

Good Luck to you...

[lo23429]

Many thanks monica-sells for your suggestions,

Although happy to, the seller cannot help much because the VAT does not transit through their account, eBay collects it directly, then it appears on the final invoice, indeed. All they can do is confirm the sold the item to me and got paid. In this particular situation, eBay collected the VAT because the recipient's address (me) was in the EU. One deviation from a typical sell is that I organized the shipping and got the item picked up from the seller's location in the USA. My carrier also handled the import red-tape which led to me paying VAT again (my carrier having no knowledge about eBay and VAT collection by eBay). So eBay has been hanging to my USD3K worth of VAT for months, noone has claimed it from them since I paid it again at import, and yet they won't reimburse it. This is driving me crazy.

Worst thing is the lack of ways to contact anyone at eBay. So frustrating.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@lo23429 wrote:

Many thanks monica-sells for your suggestions,

Although happy to, the seller cannot help much because the VAT does not transit through their account, eBay collects it directly, then it appears on the final invoice, indeed. All they can do is confirm the sold the item to me and got paid. In this particular situation, eBay collected the VAT because the recipient's address (me) was in the EU. One deviation from a typical sell is that I organized the shipping and got the item picked up from the seller's location in the USA. My carrier also handled the import red-tape which led to me paying VAT again (my carrier having no knowledge about eBay and VAT collection by eBay). So eBay has been hanging to my USD3K worth of VAT for months, noone has claimed it from them since I paid it again at import, and yet they won't reimburse it. This is driving me crazy.

Worst thing is the lack of ways to contact anyone at eBay. So frustrating.

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@lo23429 

When I ship internationally(from Canada) where VAT is involved I include the long customs form and list in the shipping notes that VAT was already paid with the info from the order details. eBay shows it as part of the shipping address. I would never include that way as this is information that should only be seen by customs and the seller. To date with doing it that way have had no issues.

If you were charged VAT originally (Collected via the GSP program) your charge details should explain what you paid. If you can print that out and include with your claim it may ease the process. 

Best of luck,

-Lotzofuniquegoodies

PS. In the past when I received an order with duties owed there was a copy of the charges included. From my understanding GSP does not do that because in their mind they are collecting on the behalf of the buyer. Some buyers are exempt and would require a receipt to claim.

[lo23429]

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@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

If you were charged VAT originally (Collected via the GSP program) your charge details should explain what you paid. If you can print that out and include with your claim it may ease the process. 

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Thank you for your help.

The issue is not to prove to eBay that they have collected the VAT, the issue is on my side to prove to eBay that I have paid the VAT a second time upon importing into France. To get into the specifics, eBay is asking me for a receipt from the carrier which shows I have paid VAT upon importing the goods into France. However the buyer (me) is a French company and as such declares every month imports/exports to the French tax office. Tax office computes from that the collected/owed VAT balance and asks for a VAT payment or reimburses the company based on the balance. The import process into France performed by my carrier involved a process called "VAT auto-liquidation" which means the French customs told the French TAX office that I have imported goods into France and as such the tax office should add the USD3K owed VAT amount to my company's monthly VAT balance. I have showed eBay certificates from the French office that the importing of the goods were included in my monthly balance computation and that my company is up to date in its VAT payments but that seems too complex for them... They want a transporter's receipt with a line which shows "VAT paid". Bummer

[monica-sells]

having never had this issue with my international shipping (as well as your particular import methods) is it feasible to try and do it the other way around...

you can easily present the paid invoice to the government authority, maybe they can credit your account essier than getting a refund from ebay?

[stephenmorgan]

Like monica-sells said, can you use the Sales Record from eBay that shows the tax was paid and get a credit?

[lo23429]

Thank you both,

I can try but doubt the tax office will be willing to go to the trouble of getting in touch with eBay USA (I don't even know how to reach them reliably) and ask for the funds... Not even mentioning the language barrier.

I will give it a thought, thank you

[stephenmorgan]

I do not think it is a matter for your Tax Office to get in touch with eBay.  eBay withheld the taxes on your behalf and the IOSS Number is the account eBay uses to pay the taxes to your country.  No matter that you used your own shipper, will your country will not accept the eBay generated receipt with the IOSS Number and amount paid along with your shipper receipt to see you paid the tax twice?

eBay is required to turn that money over to someone.  Will they not provide you with the details of who they sent to the money to?

When you get eBay on the phone, insist on talking to the international shipping department. 

[lo23429]

Thank you @stephenmorgan

The sell amount is larger than USD150 so it does not fall into the IOSS scope as I learned, that explains why there is no IOSS number on my eBay shipping label and invoice.

I just have a bill from eBay showing the VAT I paid on top of the seller's amount.

It would be nice if eBay told me if and to whom they have sent the money, but they completely stopped responding to my emails after a few exchanges, although cordial and polite; they simply said they might not respond anymore until I provided the proper receipt (which does not exist as explained above), see what they said:

"Kindly share the validated proof of VAT being paid by you at the time of delivery of the item. The document must contain- VAT paid amount, tracking id and local post/ shipping service name. You can send documents from DHL as receipt.
Once you provide us with the validated proof, we will look into the refund of the VAT.
For your ease, I am also sharing the link to upload the documents.
We appreciate the time you dedicated in contacting us again, however, your further requests on this specific topic will be read, but might not be answered until we get the valid document."

I will try to contact them by phone or chat....

Thank you

[gatefold]

did a nice post, but I just realized mine was for Australia (regular customer)

i did not apply LOL

[monica-sells]

...just thinking out loud again, trying to help...somewhere above this may have been mentioned, if so, I apologize....

This is to help you present to your taxing authorities.....

This number would have been on the Sellers Shipping Label page....

If this number was not included in the barcode during shipping, (either on the address label or on the invoices that accompany international shipping) that means that humans must get involved, and we all know what happens then (as you are witnessing)

This is from the ebay help site that seems to apply here:

For shipments into France with a consignment value above EUR 150, sellers should provide eBay's French VAT number electronically to carriers in the field where they also provide eBay's IOSS number. If sellers don't provide the French VAT number for these shipments, buyers may have to pay VAT on delivery.

This number is still available from the sellers detail page (like where the screenshot above came from}

[lo23429]

Thank you @monica-sells,

That is interetsing, I will dig in that direction; one potential issue is that in that particular case, I organized the shipping myself, meaning my carrier pickedup the item from the seller's site, so I don't know whether the seller will have had to go to the extent of providing eBay's VAT number. Meanwhile, while trying to check for this, I see now that my purchase history is gone (and yes, same eBay account as used for the purchase).....

Anyhow, I was able to contact eBay by chat and they are checking what they can do, both on the purchase history and the VAT issue. Will keep this thread posted for the results, thank you all for your contributions

[model_sales]

Hello lo23429 and all others facing VAT Fee Overcharges,

I believe if you get the information from the Customs Office in France and collect the documentation to submit to eBay as others have claimed to have done on the community forums you will be able to get the refund but you may need to send the proof in via the form below and potentially even connect with eBay agents on a phone call.

https://ocsnext.ebay.com/ocs/mudcwf?deptName=CollectRemitRefund

The Form (same link above) can be found through the 'proof of overpayment' link within the 'Refunded purchases' section on this page >>> https://pages.ebay.com/vat-eu/

You will likely need to gather some more evidence from the French Customs end to be able to prove an overcharge on eBay's end and effect a refund for the VAT fee. It would likely help to call the Customs office and see if the VAT you paid to eBay under (eBay liable to collect import VAT according to Art. 293a of the French General Tax Code) was actually collected and APPLIED to your shipment (which I suspect it was not).

If you get more information (screenshots or email records) from the customs office in France about the customs charge and the eBay VAT collected under Art. 293a as to whether it was applied, you can likely have the VAT refunded via eBay by filling out a the form above.

_________________________________________________________________________________

HERE IS THE DISASTER STORY OF DEALING WITH eBay AGENTS I EXPERIENCED DEFENDING MY BUYER

I went through this issue and was able to help my buyer get a reimbursement. We had to gather evidence that subsequent fees requested by customs were to pay VAT fees and that no VAT fee had been paid already which contradicted the entire story the eBay agents were trying to give me (both fees were separate and Valid one being 'taxes' and the other 'customs').

I was on the phone with eBay for over 3 hours trying to get to the bottom of why my buyer had to pay over $100 in VAT and was being asked to pay another $100+ from customs in France.

I was told me that the VAT is a separate charge from what customs was asking to be paid, which I do not believe to be accurate as resources online state there is a 20% VAT fee for imports to France along with 'duties' (and according to https://customsdutyfree.com/duty-calculator/ the duty calculated on the Toy Category in France should only be 4.7%)

It honestly baffles me how they tried to make it seem like they are different when the VAT fee from my research is a simplification of the import customs tax. Whenever I tried to quote the VAT rate in Europe / France and Duty Rates eBay reps simply said they were not Tax Experts and the buyer should bring complaint to Customs.

I am convinced that there is an issue charging double 'VAT fees' and I suspect that there is an issues with package shipped outside of the Global Shipping Program (GSP) not being associated with the VAT fees collected by eBay for customs agents to see.

When pressing eBay agents on the phone about whether the VAT fee was applied they had no answer other than saying that the fee was charged so therefore it was applied (meaning send to France Customs). When asking why my buyer was being asked to pay again they simply kept repeating that they were different charges. As I tried to explain the details of VAT rates to France being only 20% VAT (collected already by eBay) and asked would my buyer was being asked to pay another 20% they only continued to tell me that these were additional import charges and that a dispute should be taken up with customs in France.

The eBay agents I spoke to WERE NOT CORRECT and even demonstrated COMPLETELY INVALID SPECULATION in justifying their position that charges were valid.

The first rep I spoke to said that shipping outside of GSP leads to 'estimation errors' on VAT Fees and that the 'initial amount charged wasn't enough'. Then when escalating to a supervisor the reason for the additional import charges changed and I was told the 'charges were both SEPERATE and VALID charges, being distinctly Customs Fees and Import Tax'. The supervisor became noticeably frustrated trying to force me off the issue of a possible VAT fee overcharge claiming the buyer wasn't reporting an issue with VAT fees and instead was reporting an issue with custom fees and THE AGENT USED THAT AS JUSTIFICATION TO END THE CALL HANGING UP ON ME.

HELLO??? CUSTOMS FEES AND IMPORT TAXES (VAT fees) ARE LITERALLY THE SAME THING (THE CHARGES ARE NOT DIFFERENT AND VALID)!  

On top of that the eBay Agents literally told me that,

"This was not an issue because if it were an issue there would have more people complaining about similar cases!" They said this we ZERO DUE DILIGENCE based purely on the SPECULATION AND OPINION. In a matter of minutes I found not only this post but others as well in the eBay community forums showing users facing the same issue! BUT AGENTS SAY NO ONE IS REPORTING THIS PROBLEM WHEN ASKED?

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Payments/VAT-charged-twice/td-p/3219083

eBay agents literally reasoned with me that no one was complaining or reporting these issue so therefore the charges were valid. After my own research I located a form specifically built for over for Vat Fee Overcharges on this page >>> https://pages.ebay.com/vat-eu/ and many community posts referencing similar issues. These agents spoke purely based on speculation and in complete contradiction to presence of a persisting issue demonstrated by community forums and a specific form built to address the exact issue that agents told me did not exist.

What more evidence can there be to show agents are not suited to handle this situation? They demonstrate a complete lack of awareness for the situation being completely ignorant of community forum posts and processes in place to addressing an existing issue and they even refuse to acknowledge overcharges in direct contradiction to publicly posted VAT rates as evidence of something wrong (you don't need to be a 'Tax Expert' to know 40% does not equal 20%.

The agents I spoke to had no idea what they were doing in this case I am CONVINCED!

Now I have spent 6 hours dealing with this issue to ensure my buyer and other buyers are protected against VAT overcharges and eBay reps have the audacity to tell me it isn't my concern!!! Well when a return request happens because of VAT overcharges whose concern is it then: mine, my buyers, or the agent? It is clear from my interaction the agents had the lowest amount of concern if any. When negative feedback occurs whose concern is it then? They literally hung up on me after 3 hours trying to get to the bottom of this issue. Instead of answering direct questions they literally hung up on me and I had to ask my buyer to contact customs and put a case together to present for a reimbursement.

WILL THOSE AGENTS EVER EVEN FIND OUT THEY WERE WRONG? WHERE IS THE FEEDBACK LOOP / LEARNING PROCESS? HOW LONG WILL THIS ISSUE KEEP GOING ON UNTIL MAKES A CORRECTION?

Please, if you have struggled with VAT overcharges GIVE THIS POST A THUMBS UP TO FLAG THE ISSUE so it can be noticed and finally addressed / resolved by eBay. How many people would go through 6 hours of feedback for seemingly no expectation of any change to be made? Is this what it takes to address a VAT overcharge fee on eBay? 

[jamal1982]

I am having the exact same problem, was double taxed and Ebay representatives keep asking for documents that do not exist. I have sent them the receipt and all the documents that customs release officially in my country (Romania). All the documents prove that I was double taxed, including the DSRV document that clearly states the amount, the code for that operation and even says "Taxes (TVA)" which means VAT in English. 

All they do is keep repeating the same line that they need a document that shows VAT. I told them repeatedly that there is no such document because the documents released officially show TVA which is the same thing.

I see no other option than to file a legal complaint and I suggest everyone who has a similar problem to do the same because it's clearly a problem on Ebay's end. Either they keep the money for as long as they can, or it's a problem with the ebay representatives that handle these cases, because they seem clueless and repeat copy/pasted lines like robots.