I can't understand why fee depend on the bayer country

[boroda-ru]

Same listing section, similar product. If a buyer from Australia is charged 20.5% from full payment, if from England, then 18.5%...  Payments - MP...

This is not different VAT - i take the final amount, i take the total fee, in one case the percentage of the total fee is greater, in the other less. In the payment details, % is the same.

[soh.maryl]

Not sure I understand your question, but, if your complaint is about VAT, you do know that eBay does not determine the percentage of that, right? The VAT, as I understand it, is determined by the COUNTRY into which the item is imported and, as such, can vary from country to country.  

[boroda-ru]

You misunderstood me. I wrote that this does NOT apply to VAT or import taxes. Obviously, import taxes it is different in different countries, but it is added to the payment from the buyer not from seller. VAT for me is fixed - 20%. But all other fee percentages in the extended account are the same for simple:

Fees based on

$68.20

Item price$50.00Shipping and handling$12.00Import tax$6.20

Fees based on$68.20

Final Value FeeVariable percentage · Computers/Tablets & Networking category		-$8.56
Rate for $0.00 - $7,500.00	12.55%
International FeeCharged because the delivery address is in Australia. Final amount: $68.20.	1.3%	-$0.89
	Item fee total	-$9.45

 

Final Value FeePer order fixed amount	-$0.30	-$0.30
	Total fees	-$9.75
	VAT (20%)	-$1.94
	Total fees (includes VAT)	-$11.69

Order total$62.00

Total fees (includes VAT)-$11.69

Net proceeds$50.31

Final really % is 18.85 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Fees based on

$82.80

Item price$59.00Shipping and handling$10.00Import tax$13.80

Fees based on$82.80

Final Value FeeVariable percentage · Computers/Tablets & Networking category		-$10.39
Rate for $0.00 - $7,500.00	12.55%
International FeeCharged because the delivery address is in United Kingdom. Final amount: $82.80.	1.3%	-$1.08
	Item fee total	-$11.47

 

Final Value FeePer order fixed amount	-$0.30	-$0.30
	Total fees	-$11.77
	VAT (20%)	-$2.35
	Total fees (includes VAT)	-$14.12

Order total$69.00

Total fees (includes VAT)-$14.12

Net proceeds$54.88

Final really %20.46

All fees  as 12.55%, -$0.30, VAT20%, 1.3% internatiol are same, but

in final 20.46% vs 18.85%

 This calculate the final amounts in two invoices for different countries, you can see that the actual percentages - final amount vs final fee - are different.

[soh.maryl]

I am sorry, you offer two different sets of figures, assuming that's the amount two different buyers paid in two different countries, why would the FVF not be different?

I think you will have to wait for someone more knowledgeable than I to answer.  

[boroda-ru]

It would be logical that import taxes were different for different countries. But they should be paid by the buyer, not the seller. The rest of all fees, as you can see, they are the same. I calculate the percentages based on the actual _final_ amount. So Ii don't understand why they differ depending on the country, specifically for the seller, and not for the buyer. I could guess because of the conversion, but the conversion takes place in both cases - Australian dollars and British pounds ...

[boroda-ru]

There should be simple math, there are three sums of the cost of item, shipping and import taxes, there are fixed fee percentages and fixed fees w/o procent. And how not to change these three components, after all the deductions, the ratio of the resulting amount vs fees should be the same. But it is different.

[lacemaker3]

@boroda-ru ,

The total fees are not different because the buyers are in different countries.

The total fees are different for those two transactions because the shipping costs and import tax were different. The Import fees include VAT (for the UK) and sales tax (for Australia), which depend on the buyer's country, but they also depend on the type and value of the item, so they could also be different for buyers in the same country as well. And, even if there weren't import fees or the international fee involved, the total fees are still going to be different because the shipping cost is different.

Your fees are calculated on the total payment made by the buyer, so your total fees depend on how much the shipping and import tax costs were.

The total fees, if you calculate them as a percentage of the item price, (or as a percentage of the subtotal including item price plus shipping, as you did) are always going to be different for every order, because eBay doesn't calculate the fees based on the item price, or the subtotal. They're calculated based on the total payment made by the buyer. The fixed Final Value Fee, which is charged per order not per item, is also going to change the percentage of the total fees because it doesn't depend on the payment amount.

If you calculate the total fees as a percentage of the buyer's total payment, then they work out to be almost the same. The small difference here is because of the fixed final value fee, $0.30.

		Purchase 1	Purchase 2	Fee based on:
Item Price		$50.00	$59.00
Shipping		$12.00	$10.00
Subtotal		$62.00	$69.00
Import fee (based on buyer's country)		$6.20	$13.80
Total payment		$68.20	$82.80
FVF, variable	12.55%	$8.56	$10.39	Total payment
International Fee	1.30%	$0.89	$1.08	Total payment
FVF, fixed	$0.30	$0.30	$0.30	Per order
Total fees		$9.75	$11.77
VAT on fees (based on seller's country)	20.00%	$1.94	$2.35	Total fees
Total fees including VAT		$11.69	$14.12
Total fees incl. VAT as a percentage		17.13%	17.05%	Total payment

[boroda-ru]

Thanks for the answer. But you can explain to me like a child. Product price $1 +shipping cost $2 + import tax cost $3 Total is $6. How will it differ from $3-$2-$1? Fees are still taken on the basis of the fully transferred amount from bayer. In this case it is same $6. 

I do not entirely agree with you that it is impossible to include $0.30 in full fee procent, because it is a fixed rate for me and it will always be, this is same procents. But i still didn't understand how it happened - 20.46% vs 18.85%

"If you calculate the total fees as a percentage of the buyer's total payment, then they work out to be almost the same. The small difference here is because of the fixed final value fee, $0.30."

14.12 vs 11.7 - $2.4 this is noticeably more than $0.30, in addition, this amount is taken in both invoices.

Obviously, the type of item can affect the  incoming tax price(for byers), but any combination of the price of the item, the cost of shipping and the incoming tax amount, cannot affect the final ratio of the final amount after fee/fee. Simply because fee are calculated on the entire amount what paid the buyer.

[lacemaker3 · Accepted solution]

@boroda-ru ,

I will try to explain it with words. I don't want to treat you like a child. I think the difficulty is the language barrier, because English is not your first language.

For the first purchase, you said:

---

@boroda-ru wrote:

Order total$62.00

Total fees (includes VAT)-$11.69

Net proceeds$50.31

Final really % is 18.85 

---

Your math is correct. $11.69 / $62.00 = 18.85%.     BUT, you used the wrong number ($62.00) to make the calculation.

From the data you quoted from eBay for that purchase (I added the red for emphasis):

---

@boroda-ru wrote:

Item price$50.00Shipping and handling$12.00Import tax$6.20

Fees based on$68.20

---

So the math should have been done using the number $68.20 :

$11.69 / $68.20 = 17.13%

And for the second purchase, the information from eBay was:

---

@boroda-ru wrote:

Item price$59.00Shipping and handling$10.00Import tax$13.80

Fees based on$82.80

...

Total fees (includes VAT)-$14.12

---

So for the second purchase, the math should be using $82.80:

$14.12 / $82.80 = 17.05%

So the percentages are almost the same, when they are calculated based on the correct number (the buyer's total payment).

You said earlier that you didn't think the fees should be calculated including the cost of the import tax. But, that's how eBay does it. The import tax IS included.

The "import tax" in this case, is just like the sales tax for items are delivered to the USA. Sellers here have to pay fees based on the total payment including the sales tax as well. Lots of sellers don't like it, but it's just the way it is, and we can't change it.

[boroda-ru]

Thanks. In general, i understand you idea . But since i need to operate with real numbers in orders to understand the profitability of the sale my item, i must remember that in fact, when selling to the UK, money will come to my wallet minus 20.5% of the all money, what paid to me bayer(not to the state or ebay) for the item+shipping. Not 17.13%

[lacemaker3]

---

@boroda-ru wrote:

Thanks. In general, i understand you idea . But since i need to operate with real numbers in orders to understand the profitability of the sale my item, i must remember that in fact, when selling to the UK, money will come to my wallet minus 20.5% of the all money, what paid to me bayer(not to the state or ebay) for the item+shipping. Not 17.13%

---

Yes, @boroda-ru , you do need to account for all the fees.

However, it won't always be 18.85% when you sell to the first country, or 20.46% when you sell to the second country. It will be different for each transaction, because the shipping fees will be different.

You might want to use something like 20% as a general percentage, if you want to predict your fees in advance. You can keep track of it for a while and adjust it based on what you actually pay if you want to.

I just noticed that the Import tax was actually 10% for purchase 1, and 20% for purchase 2. I believe that the VAT rate for the UK is 20%, and the GST (general sales tax) for Australia is 10%, so I think purchase 1 must have been shipped to Australia, and purchase 2 was shipped to the UK, at least based on the import tax rates.

[boroda-ru]

Yes, i suppose that it is necessary to count at the maximum rate, because on a product with a small profit, you can go into a minus. By country, you are absolutely right, at the beginning of my post they were written. Unfortunately, the ebay carefully conceals the real amount of the all fee, despite the fact that their amounts have become extortionate. From 13.85 to 20.5% this is really hard jump... Thanks you for the help.