New guidelines say real gold and silver jewelry are costume if the stones are lab-created?

[retrobiz]

I just got the announcement that gold jewelry (10K, 14K, 18k, etc.) and sterling silver (.925), which are considered 'fine' jewelry, must have a primary stone that is natural to be listed as fine jewelry.  In addition, if the stone has been treated, we can not use the term 'enhanced' but must call it 'treated'.  I don't have a problem with the terminology of treated vs. enhanced.  I do have a problem putting a fine gold ring under fashion jewelry just because it has a lab created or man made stone.  Many pieces of high quality estate jewelry have lab created stones.  Lots of class rings, fraternity pins, brooches, etc. were made with lab created spinel and it is almost impossible to determine some of them with gem testing equipment.  That is the first part of my problem.  The second part is:  if the stone must be, in ebay's words, "a fine, natural stone" in order to be listed under fine jewelry, where does that leave fine jewelry with items that are natural but not stone?  Shell cameos?  Amber?  And lastly, half the jewelers I know can't determine if a stone has been treated.  I hope there will be an option for 'unknown' that is acceptable under 'fine' jewelry.  One more thing: If ebay is trying to distinguish between lab created and 'man made', this rule doesn't do it.  Lab created gems are technically real and test real.  'Man made' would be CZs, rhinestones, crystals, paste, etc.  Did anyone check with any jewelry industry standards on these rules?  I think the buyers need protection from sellers playing loose with terminology and misrepresenting items, but I think sellers need some leeway when gemstones are difficult to determine without professional equipment.  OK, that's it for tonight.  I'm worn out.

[jz-5682]

I really don't understand eBay's gemstone lists either. I am about to sell some strands of  Vintage Butterscotch, Honey, and Egg Yolk Baltic Amber Beads. I see these necklaces sell for $1,000.00 to $2,500.00 on eBay auctions. What is not natural or precious about Baltic Amber? Granted, there is no metal on the strand, but a $1,000.00 necklace will have to list in fashion jewelry, while a $5.00 sterling silver charm is considered fine jewelry?? What genius came up with these lists??

[jz-5682]

I just realized I can get around this by listing my amber in Vintage and Antique Jewelry. But there will probably be that little box asking "Fine or Fashion". 

[vintagecraze50]

Thank you for responding as a certified gemologist. 

[retrobiz]

There is no way I'll list gold or sterling jewelry with gemstones on ebay under these guideline going forward.  They are not fair to the sellers, but they are very misleading to the public, who have no experience with terminology.  I know these categories are ripe for sellers to take advantage of the buyers, I see it over and over, but they will not abide by the rules and these rules will not help stop them.  It just downgrades the products of reputable sellers and makes the fraud bunch harder to spot.  Surely ebay can seek the counsel of the jewelry industry in deciding this issue?  Some national organization of jewelers?  Appraisers?  

[donsdetour]

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@jz-5682 wrote:

I really don't understand eBay's gemstone lists either. I am about to sell some strands of  Vintage Butterscotch, Honey, and Egg Yolk Baltic Amber Beads. I see these necklaces sell for $1,000.00 to $2,500.00 on eBay auctions. What is not natural or precious about Baltic Amber? Granted, there is no metal on the strand, but a $1,000.00 necklace will have to list in fashion jewelry, while a $5.00 sterling silver charm is considered fine jewelry?? What genius came up with these lists??

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I will add to this due to such as costume jewelry can also sell into the thousand or thousands: don't make it fine jewelry its still cosutme...

[donsdetour]

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@retrobiz wrote:

There is no way I'll list gold or sterling jewelry with gemstones on ebay under these guideline going forward.  They are not fair to the sellers, but they are very misleading to the public, who have no experience with terminology.  I know these categories are ripe for sellers to take advantage of the buyers, I see it over and over, but they will not abide by the rules and these rules will not help stop them.  It just downgrades the products of reputable sellers and makes the fraud bunch harder to spot.  Surely ebay can seek the counsel of the jewelry industry in deciding this issue?  Some national organization of jewelers?  Appraisers?  

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They would say a lot more category were needed which is what ebay is getting rid of...

[idealgems1]

I think eBay's attempt to clean up this category is admirable, but they've just swung and missed.   Again, this whole mess is easy enough to clean up so that it makes sense to buyers and sellers, and at least gives eBay a shot at policing it.  Nothing will stop fraudsters and unethical or completely ignorant sellers completely; we all understand that.  But eBay's policies should create a level playing field and protect buyers as much as possible.

So again, eBay, here are suggestions from a Graduate Gemologist, a former board member of the Independent Jewelers Organization, a former member of the National Association of Jewelry Appraisers, and a retail jeweler for 40 years:

1)  To be listed under the Fine Jewelry category, the item must be constructed from solid gold of 9K (.375) fineness or higher, or platinum or palladium of .500 fineness or higher.  Gold filled, gold overlay, gold plated, "layered in gold" or "gold over" any material does not qualify.  They could make an exception for the rare case of an expensive gemstone piece in non-gold to also include any jewelry with a genuine, natural gem with a minimum opening bid or reserve price of $100 or higher.

2)  Any gemstone must be clearly stated as either natural, simulated/synthetic/created, or unknown.  Any simulated, synthetic, or created gem, or unknown gem must be identified as such in the title and description.  No misleading terminology such as "genuine diamond CZ" is permitted.

3)  Any natural gem that is treated in any way should be described as to the treatment in the description and item specifics.  If any possible treatment of any gemstone is unknown by the seller, then the treatment of the gem should be stated as "unknown".  A gem may only be listed as untreated if this state if known by the seller based on personal knowledge, or based on a recognized laboratory certificate or appraisal by a qualified gemologist.

4)  A new category of Solid Silver Jewelry will be created for any jewelry with silver fineness of .800 or higher.  No silver plated or base metal pieces are permitted to be listed in this category.

I feel that simple rules like this would greatly benefit both buyers and ethical sellers, and be manageable for eBay to reasonably police.  This would lead to better trust by buyers, and thereby grow sales in this category and add to eBay's bottom line.  (This last point is my M.B.A. speaking, not my gemology degree.)   😉

[jz-5682]

HELLO EBAY!  ARE YOU READING THIS THREAD??? PLEASE LET US KNOW IF ANYONE IS HEARING US.

[jenpicked]

Ebay has been my only job for almost 20 years.  And I have four full time employees, who also rely 100% on their job with me (on ebay) for their families.  Needless to say, we do not take changes lightly on ebay.  

Once again, ebay has made a major classification change, without consulting a single person in the actual jewelry industry.  Obviously, ebay has zero knowledge of the jewelry industry themselves....which is OK, that is why successful companies all over the world use consultants in other areas for help with such matters.

For instance, does ebay not realize that many MAJOR jewelry companies use simulated stones all the time?  Companies that work with solid K gold and solid sterling.  On items that cost upwards of tens of thousands of dollars.  So, guys all of your Judith Ripka, and Pandora, and Konstantino, and Dior, etc etc etc.  

In fact, I just did a search for "Sapphire ring", and it auto defaulted into the fine jewelry category.  Which means that anyone searching for your Lab Created sapphire 14k solid gold ring......will never find it.  It will in essence totally disappear when searched. 

This is a huge mistake ebay.  Ask LITERALLY ANYONE from any successful jewelry company, or LITERALLY ANYONE in the jewelry retail industry.

[flipping_treasures]

Just one simple question.  Who at eBay has the knowledge to recognize a 

"natural stone" from a picture and can then enforce the new rule?

[donsdetour]

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@flipping_treasures wrote:

Just one simple question.  Who at eBay has the knowledge to recognize a 

"natural stone" from a picture and can then enforce the new rule?

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I do love a good laugh in the morning......Thanks..

[flipping_treasures]

If I weren't trying so hard not to cry, I'd laugh with you. 

[retrobiz]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, for posting those guidelines.  How simple, how sensible, how easy to understand and apply!!  Which means it will all be ignored but I give it my 100% support.  I am not a graduate gemologist, but certified by GIA in diamond and pearl grading.  But believe it or not, back in the 'old' days one could go to a school in Connecticut for four gruesome but fun days and become a Certified Estate Jewelry Appraiser. I do have that certification, and your suggested guidelines would hold up under those guidelines as well.

[gemstonesriches]

Honestly only diamonds, sapphires, emeralds and rubies are precious all others are semi precious.

[1soraya]

Why does eBay make its guidelines vs. standard guidelines? Jewelry stores categorize Solid Gold and Solid Silver Fine Jewelry even if it has  CZ or man-made stones because fine jewelry is based on metal if it fades or turns color it can be repaired and welded