Possible Scam with iPhones

[6514steve]

I recently sold an Apple iPhone to someone in the Ukraine.  The item was shipped and I provided a shipping number to the buyer.  Shipment was made through USPS via PayPal.  The buyer recently emailed me saying the phone never arrived and now wants their money back.

At this point, I have called USPS, PayPal, and eBay.  USPS told me once the item leaves the US it cannot be tracked.  PayPal told me to wait until 20 days to see if the buyer files a "claim".  eBay told me there has been extensive problems with iPhones purchased through eBay to the Ukraine and Eastern Europe and the matter needs to be investigated.

At no point was I able to open or leave feedback about the buyer which doesn't make sense.  This entire case appears to be a fraud.  I guess the sellers are the victims.

Please be aware of this problem.  If you are going to ship items overseas then ship by FedEx or UPS.  I WILL NOT SHIP ANOTHER ITEM INTERNATIONALLY!

There is NO protection for sellers if you ship something internationally via USPS.  It's simply ridiculous.

Please feel free to contact me if you have had similar experiences.  This is the second time I have been stolen from.

[mayholding]

that is what i am now doing, and should have done.  obviously the scammers are targeting newer less experienced sellers (like i was) and taking advantage of eBay policies. eBay's buyer protection throws a big wrinkle into this whole process i did not understand or appreciate.  since ebay has no real exposure on these kinds of fraudulent buyers, they don't put a lot of effort into informing eBay sellers or investigating; they just ding the seller account and move on.

[round.robin]

There is also seller protection, mayholding.

[jfbouz]

The scam continues, but like a bad virus, the scam has adapated.  I block all  non-U.S buyers. But even with that, I recently sold an iPhone to someone with a U.S. address, confirmed by PayPal. This buyer paid, so I sent the iPhone to the address in NJ. The item was signed for and  I got signature confirmation / proof of delivery from USPS in pdf form. But now this buyer is claiming the iPhone never arrived and is threatening me with chargeback action on Paypal. Where is this buyer's eBay registered location? You got it, the good ol Ukraine.

[wjmsd2011]

I have an iPhone I was selling and the winning bidder wanted it shipped to the Ukraine.  I specially said in my add that I would ship to the US only.  I sent them a message declining their bid.  

Thanks for posting this.  Do think this will be an issue?

Bill

[expert_elec_photo]

It is not true that shipments cannot be tracked once they leave the USA. It depends on the destination country and method of shipment.

For expensive items, I only offer USPS Express International shipping which offers tracking to most all countries. Priority shipments can also generally be tracked. Even then you want to be careful- instead of saying 'NEW IPHONE 5 64GB' (or whatever), I would just describe it as 'Mobile device' or something like that, to now draw attention during transit.

USPS First Class/Parcel International shipments do not offer tracking outside the USA. Canada is the only country I offer First Class shipping to, as I have never lost a package to Canada this way.

EBay does offer seller protection, but you need to be very careful to read all the terms and conditions. Signature delivery is required, among other things.

I think many of these shipments are due to theft during transit, not because of the recipient. Of course that doesn't help the seller any. If it is a big ticket item you absolutely cannot afford any risk of loss, just exclude international buyers (although there is always a small chance of loss regardless of where the item is going.)

[mingazdinov]

Keep it clean for my english)) I translate from Russian by Google. Yes, in Russia is really a lot of speculators who never miss an opportunity to take advantage of people's trust. We even send mail to steal ((Not an honest official. Tell situation with iPhone, in Russia they are much more expensive. Example 4s 16gb $ 900. Speculators buy iPhone for $ 500-600, and sell for $ 700-800. and some are not good speculators reap double profit by selling the iPhone and returning money to Paypal, betraying a seller on eBay. speculators sell iPhones through most popular social network in Russia, so for example in the social group. single network of speculators http://vk.com/24appleshopru. But not that everything is bad in Russia, we have good people!))

[mizugami7523]

Mail priority USPS

You will get confirmation to the door. 

I have been mailing to Odessa for 5 years. 

Never lost a package. Including maybe 20 iPhones. 

including macs and other valuables. 

Large boxes make it. I did have one small box with iPhone 4S fail to make it to Kiev. But it could have been lost here too

[kstartlite]

I'm thankful for these posts because I almost shipped my sold iPhone to the Ukraine, Eek!  Before the Ukrainian buyer won the bid, she sent me two emails telling me she was bidding on the phone and was excited about winning the bid.  Once she won the bid, she emailed me two more times and said the address on her account was not accurate and wanted me to ship it to a new address.  Well, that made me weary of shipping it but I was still considering it. (duh, I know). I immediately voided the label and attempted to print a new label with the new address.  However, ebay’s system was glitching and would not allow me to reprint a new label.  (I think this was for the best.) I contacted the Ukrainian buyer and advised her of the issues and there would be a delay.  So, I contacted ebay to ask why I couldn’t reprint the label.  The ebay rep told me about the glitch and when I told her about the buyer wanting to change her address, she strongly advised me Not to ship the package to the newly provided address as it would covered if something happen to the package during shipment. In the meantime, the Ukrainian buyer found me on facebook and tried to friend me! Isn’t that a bit weird? Even more, she only had 7 facebook friends. Granted, I don’t know how popular facebook is in the Ukraine, but 7 friends sounds like you just opened your account. (Very fishy)  I finally decided that I was not going to sell the item to the buyer because I was too weirded out by everything that happened and too concerned I was going to be made the sucker by losing an iphone and having to pay for it once they filed a case against me! So, I told the buyer sorry for the inconvenience, but since I couldn’t send the phone to a new address and the label wouldn’t print, I was not going to sell the phone & refunded her money. She then sent me numerous emails asking why I couldn’t send the phone. Sorry Ukraine, won’t be shipping any electronics your way any time soon.

[soliddealsonline]

...

Once she won the bid, she emailed me two more times and said the address on her account was not accurate and wanted me to ship it to a new address.  Well, that made me weary of shipping it but I was still considering it. (duh, I know). I immediately voided the label and attempted to print a new label with the new address.  However, ebay’s system was glitching and would not allow me to reprint a new label.  (I think this was for the best.) I contacted the Ukrainian buyer and advised her of the issues and there would be a delay.  So, I contacted ebay to ask why I couldn’t reprint the label.  The ebay rep told me about the glitch and when I told her about the buyer wanting to change her address, she strongly advised me Not to ship the package to the newly provided address as it would covered if something happen to the package during shipment.

...

I'm glad you didn't ship to the "corrected" address. This also applies to buyers in any country including the USA - if you ship to an alternate or "corrected" address sent to you in a message, you will lose all Seller Protection if the buyer claims that the payment was unauthorized or that the item was not received.

If any buyer contacts you asking you to ship to a different address besides what shows up in eBay shipping or on the PayPal transaction details page, the only safe way to ship to that address is to refund the buyer's payment, send them a request to cancel the transaction, then relist the item so that they can purchase it again and enter the corrected address during checkout.

It would be a good idea to let the customer know before you do this, though.

[rad_dad76]

I just recently had the same issue.  I sold it to a buyer with a NJ address.  Now they are saying that I didn't ship the 32GB as promised and instead shipped a 16GB.  I asked for photos and the phone that he is showing me is absolutely not my phone.  Apparently the person in NJ shipped it out to Ukraine.

[aydie10]

I just accidentally hit this topic in Google, and could not pass without having my say. I myself am from Ukraine, and at some point I was considering buying an iPhone via eBay.

You see, the thing is, Apple just won't sell iPhones in Ukraine, apparently they can't make a deal with our officials (who hold also every business in the country including cell carriers), and this (not the prices) is primary cause of UNBELIEVABLE amount of every possible fraud and scam around this device. People want it but they just don't know where to get it!

As far as I know, the vast majority of the phones gets stolen at customs. That's it. Nor customers, neither the Ukrainian post (which is actually very reliable, unlike the Russian Post) never see the package, or see just empty box. Some Russians and some Ukrainians sometimes do get their phones, but with some tricks and luck. Vast majority of people just get empty boxes or nothing because, as I said, the devices are being stolen at customs.

As for U.S. addresses - yes, since many of you won't sell us anything (which is not surprising after all I said), we try to get things via intermediate agencies, who buy things to their U.S. addresses and then ship to Ukraine.

I know so many people who bought iPhones on eBay and got just empty box or nothing at all... I always wished buyers just wouldn't sell them to us. Be very careful with Apple devices, especially iPhones! It's better to NOT sell those to Russia or Ukraine. Don't help create black market in our countries! I DREAM about Apple officially selling iPhones in Ukraine and opening an Apple Store, with warranty and all.

[skamieniecki]

not with that name but I did sell three phones to a NJ ebayer who then emailed me to send the phones to an address in Russia. He paid and the payment cleared and I sent them as asked. The phones were mailed, tracked and went through customs but he stated he never received them. Funny thing, once I told him I had tracked the package, he was not heard from again. Moral of the story, send nothing to Eastern Europe.

[mooseoftoose]

I sent one to Sri Lanka, and just became part of the scam. Paypal even decided the case in teh buyer's favor! So now Im out the iPhone, and $618. 

[soliddealsonline]

not with that name but I did sell three phones to a NJ ebayer who then emailed me to send the phones to an address in Russia. He paid and the payment cleared and I sent them as asked. The phones were mailed, tracked and went through customs but he stated he never received them. Funny thing, once I told him I had tracked the package, he was not heard from again. Moral of the story, send nothing to Eastern Europe.

Sending anything to an address that is not on the PayPal transaction details page is not a good idea, since you will lose all Seller Protection.

[cmkzoo]

I had the same thing happen. I shipped an iPhone to the Ukraine, they said they never got it. I used the shipping that was provided by eBay. eBay refunded the buyer, stating it's my responsibility to make sure the item is received. I have no recourse. And of course, I have no way of going back to sdee what other shipping options they offered (everything disappears on eBay), nor did the buyer ask for insurance. USPS tracks in the US but then there's no further tracking. I did not know that at the time.