eBay

dusty.roads · ‎10-29-2018

Here is a flask I need help to ID:

dusty.roads · ‎10-30-2018

This is the absolute best I can do for a picture. Thanks for all your help!

dusty.roads · ‎10-30-2018

argon38 · ‎10-30-2018

Gorham.

nicefind2006 · ‎10-30-2018

Is is possible this is sterling?

"Gorham silver used these housemarks in its sterling silver items:"

http://www.silvercollection.it/gorham.html

argon38 · ‎10-30-2018

@nicefind2006 wrote:
Is is possible this is sterling?

I don't know if the anchor mark on its own (without the lion and G) was ever used for sterling. It was definitely used on silver plate, though, as can be seen from the advertisement below. I don't think they would've used the same mark for both sterling and silver plate:

sonomabarn67 · ‎10-30-2018

Would the P stand for plated? Why can't we find this exact mark as by Gorham? We're getting into Rumsfeld territory "There are known knowns and known unknowns..."

Is this a known unknown? I just don't want to mentally carry a known unknown to the next battle in the field! Or put another way, I don't want to Woody Allen it, "I have a gub."

argon38 · ‎10-30-2018

@sonomabarn67 wrote:
Would the P stand for plated? Why can't we find this exact mark as by Gorham?

It's an F (MFG, for "Manufacturing") - just badly struck. The sharper photos look less like a P than the blurred one did. It's the same mark as the one in the link here:

https://www.smpub.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/001079.html

Right, I'm off to bed

sonomabarn67 · ‎10-30-2018

I still don't believe it, it's a P, not an F. There may be a perfectly good reason why it is a P and still Gorham but the OP's mark shows a P. And, if by Gorham, there would be another example...somewhere.

Sorry for believing my own lyin' eyes.

argon38 · ‎10-31-2018

@sonomabarn67 wrote:
I still don't believe it, it's a P, not an F.

Have another look at the mark on the Gorham bell in the link (the first mark shown, not the second):

https://www.smpub.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/001079.html

See how poorly struck it is: the first letter is a "G," but no-one would ever guess it! Then line up the mark in that photo with the mark on the OP's object. The spacing between the "F"/"P" and the "G," and between the "G" and the "CO," is identical. It's the same mark.

"G MFG CO" makes perfect sense as an abbreviation of "Gorham Manufacturing Co," whereas "G MPG CO" makes no sense at all. As far as I know, Gorham silver plate was not faked; in any case, someone trying to fake it to the extent of ccpying the spacing on the genuine mark would hardly get one of the letters wrong.

We are looking at photographs. The OP has the item in hand, has examined it under a loupe, and has concluded the letter is an "F". If they're right about that then there's really no difficulty.

sonomabarn67 · ‎10-31-2018

OK, point taken, you are correct.

nicefind2006 · ‎10-31-2018

If those marks do not indicate a 925 purity, the website stating that "GORHAM SILVER MARKS Gorham silver used these housemarks in its sterling silver items:"

http://www.silvercollection.it/gorham.html needs to be corrected.

The example of the bells stamping included a number designation that began with "0" indicating silverplate. There is no such number designation on the flask.

argon38 · ‎10-31-2018

@nicefind2006 wrote:
If those marks do not indicate a 925 purity, the website stating that "GORHAM SILVER MARKS Gorham silver used these housemarks in its sterling silver items:"
http://www.silvercollection.it/gorham.html needs to be corrected.
The example of the bells stamping included a number designation that began with "0" indicating silverplate. There is no such number designation on the flask.

I definitely wouldn't pretend to have any sort of expertise in Gorham silver marks. My silver plate conclusion was based on comments like these:

"Generally, if you don't see the Lion Anchor G on a known piece of early Gorham, it is probably plate. The anchor on its own is the trademark to look for on old plate."

"The numerical prefix '0' on a Gorham piece's model number indicates plate, as does the anchor trademark (i.e., no lion or G)."

https://www.smpub.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/001079.html

"They only used the anchor mark on silverplate"

http://925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10420

I don't know enough to say whether the website you mention is wrong to include that mark among "Gorham silver marks". It may well have appeared on sterling items, for all I know. But it definitely appeared on silverplate, too (as is clear from the advertisement).

As for the zero mark, by all accounts its presence would constitute conclusive evidence that an item is silver plate. However, I'm not sure that the converse is true: in other words, I don't think the absence of the zero can be taken as a positive indication that it is sterling.

argon38 · ‎10-31-2018

@nicefind2006 wrote:
If those marks do not indicate a 925 purity, the website stating that "GORHAM SILVER MARKS Gorham silver used these housemarks in its sterling silver items:"
http://www.silvercollection.it/gorham.html needs to be corrected.

Here's the original patent for the above design (USD2854S, of 31 Dec. 1867😞

https://patents.google.com/patent/USD2854S/en?assignee=gorham&sort=old

mywantmydesire · ‎10-31-2018

Thank you for your effort into this! Do you think the "Q" is a stamp for the year 1864?
I am beginning to realize that the mark, GORHAM MF'G CO , and GMF G CO are different enough that they may not indicate the same things.

I am wondering if it is time to put the flask to an acid test..