Need help to identify makers mark on Native American pot.

[trob258063635]

Bowl is small and made of coiled construction. It is glazed on the inside and has two Kachina like faces in the outside. Mark on bottom lookslike an arrowhead with a .7 and some initials. Can someone identify this maker and his/her tribe?

Thanks in advance.

[janetpjohn_la]

I don't think this is Native American at all, maybe done in a pottery class.

Janet

[verybrad]

Agree, not traditional Native American pottery.  

[olivialouis2005]

I also agree, not traditional Native American pottery.  But I believe I have seen these before.  If I recall, the SP is for Sioux Pottery so might be a modern tourist piece.  I'll see if I can find what I am remembering, lol.    

[olivialouis2005]

Here is a similar piece to what I was remembering.  I definitely can not confirm it is Native American though.

$30.00

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/native-american-pottery-vase-inlaid-1695276313

[trob258063635]

Thanks for taking the time to help me. They are definately related, and probably a recent tourist trade item. The turquoise on mine is definately just a glaze and not stones.

Have a good weekend.

[tryno2 · Accepted solution]

I think it's an older piece from the Souix pottery factory.  The stuff they make now has a different look.  Souix Pottery started in 1958.  

[vintage_chic_antiques]

Hi,
I realize I'm replying to a response from 2 years ago but I was quite intrigued when I saw this post because the piece of pottery I have, which I've had trouble identifying, seems to be a Sioux Pottery piece as well. Mine, like the OP's, has a turquoise paint not inlaid stones. I previously had a thread on the Pottery board.

I'm sorry if these questions seem silly, but I know nothing about Native American pottery and am trying to learn. What is meant by "modern tourist pieces"? When I went to the Sioux Pottery site I read where it states "Creating Lakota Handcrafted Collectables Since 1958" and " the Native American Indian pottery designed and hand-crafted by Sioux Indian Artists since 1958." What I'm assuming is modern pieces made in a factory setting or mass produced not using traditional methods, even when made by Native Americans, do not have the value of modern pieces made by an individual craftsman using traditional methods. Would this be a correct assumption?

[bnbsellingtime]

It seems to me that you are partially correct. Indeed it is important for traditional techniques to be followed by a NA artist and while I am sure there are NA artist today that are commanding decent prices but it seems that the majority of valuable pots are usually a quite a bit older. I sometimes see pieces described as tourist pieces from Victorian times and such that can be recognized from the work to be by a certain tribe or person fetching good prices but older pieces that were actually made for personal use in the tribe are often the most valuable it seems to me.

I am not an expert by any stretch in this field but I never pass a chance up to learn and pay close attention to those who are. One thing is for sure, if you stop by a roadside pottery tent in the Southwest Four Corners area and buy a cute $50.00 pot I do not believe you have much hope of this becoming more valuable in your lifetime. The majority of tourist pieces are fantasy pieces incorporating designs meant to appeal to tourist but lack any meaning in the tribes history or beliefs IMHO.

[taupou]

The Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990 is a federal law which helped clarify how Indian/Native American can be legally sold.  It makes it "illegal to offer or display for sale, or sell any art or craft product in a manner that falsely suggests it is Indian produced, an Indian product, or the product of a particular Indian or Indian Tribe or Indian arts and crafts organization,"  according to the U.S. Department of Interior's web site, which can be found at:  https://www.doi.gov/iacb/act.  

The above web site also has links to the complete Act itself, and to further clarifications made in 2000.   It is too lengthy and complicated to go into here, but very useful information which anyone involved in buying or selling Indian items, should be familiar with.

But as to the value of mass-produced items like this (which is not addressed in the IACA), your assumption is correct.   It does not approach the value of traditional, hand-made, one-of-a-kind items, even if the assembly line workers happen to be Native Americans.

[vintage_chic_antiques]

Thank you for that additional information bnbsellingtime. I do appreciate that and understand what you mean. I've been traveling and did not have internet which is why I couldn't thank you sooner.

[vintage_chic_antiques]

Hi taupou, thanks for your helpful input and the link to the Indian Arts and Crafts Board . It appeared to be a dead link at first, but then I realized it was because the period was also highlighted. I would have responded sooner, but I've been away from the internet while traveling.

When I was a little kid we used to go stay in Gatlinburg, TN every month and my Mom would drive over to Cherokee, NC. This was before there was a casino and the main attraction was the Unto These Hills production and the trading post on the reservation. My Mom would always buy a lot of Indian items she loved until probably 1989 when she found, while in the store, some of the items had "made in China" stickers on the bottom. She asked the manager and was told that, although the items were made in China, they were made to "their specifications". My Mom wasn't happy about that and never went back. I would think from what you write and what the Indian Arts and Crafts Board page states,  that would be a no no as well and those items, as of 1990, could no longer have been made for the tribe in China and sold in their store even if it was to the Cherokees' specifications.

I also emailed Sioux Pottery and included the photos of my pot shown here. I received two responses. One stated that it was not Sioux Pottery because all their artists are required to sign their name and no numbers are used. The other response said it did not look like Sioux Pottery, but "if it is someone must have done it on their own" which I took to mean that the workers are allowed to use the facilities to make pottery on their off days or free time and if they do, they can not sign their name and if they chose to use the SP logo it's not acknowledged. I may have read more into it than what was written, but that made the most sense to me from the response.

[taupou]

Since the tribal affiliation (if any) of the potter is unknown, as is the potter's name, under the terms of the Indian Arts and Crafts Act, it cannot be sold as Native American.  It may have an Indian "style" or influence, but legally, it is not Native American.

As to items made in a factory, the law is quite specific.  They cannot be sold as Native American, even if they were designed by a tribal member, or made to the specifics of a tribe.  The work must be actually be done by an enrolled member or artisan of a state or federally recognized U.S. tribe.

The Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990 is actually quite lengthy, and addresses many issues brought up before the law was enacted.  The official federal website has links to the complete law, as well as to comments about how and why the decisions were made concerning specific issues.

Virtually all Native American Indian pottery is made for sale to collectors or tourists, not for actual use.   This has been the case since the tourist trade started in the Southwest in the 1890s.    Indian arts and crafts contributes over a billion dollars to the economy yearly, and in some areas 85% of the families depend on their art for the majority of their total income.  

Value is based more on the quality and craftsmanship, and on the reputation of the artist than on anything else.   Factory-made souvenir items therefore have little, if any, resale value.  A traditionally-made, all handmade piece, made by a well-known potter, can sell for thousands.