Identity of maker and date of this vase

[jaylynn2012]

Hi everyone. Can use a little help on this one.

[maxine*j · Accepted solution]

Gotheborg lists it under "Unidentified Seal Marks," late 20th Century (scroll down to see it, number 935):

http://www.gotheborg.com/~gothebor/marks/20thcenturyjapan.shtml

[jaylynn2012]

Thank you so much!!!

[casey768]

it is made by a company translated to be 'beautiful art pottery',not an artist seal.  

[maxine*j]

You're welcome.  Gotheborg is a good resource.  

[argon38]

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@maxine*j wrote:

Gotheborg lists it under "Unidentified Seal Marks," late 20th Century (scroll down to see it, number 935):

http://www.gotheborg.com/~gothebor/marks/20thcenturyjapan.shtml

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I don't understand why it is listed as unidentified. Isn't it the same company as no. 941 on that page: Bijutsu Toki? The mark is slightly different, but the characters are the same:

美術陶器

Google search for Bijutsu Toki:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Bijutsu+Toki%22&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZ1P_r7YDbAhXNFsAKHT7...

[maxine*j]

I know nothing beyond what Gotheborg tells me, and they seem to believe that the differences in the two marks are significant enough to not consider them a match.

Mark No. 941 - Bijutsu Toki           Mark on OP's vase

[argon38]

Well, they both say "Bijutsu Toki." But since this is simply Japanese for "Fine Arts Ceramics," I suppose the name could have been used by more than one company.

[argon38]

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@argon38 wrote:

Well, they both say "Bijutsu Toki."

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Just to remove any possibility of doubt that this is what the OP's mark says - whether it is the same company as the other one or not - here's a vase with the OP's variant of the mark on a Japanese website. According to the Japanese seller, it reads "美術陶器JAPAN" - in other words, Bijutsu Toki JAPAN:

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/swan-kyoto/5124/

 

[pixzee]

I don't read Japanese, but I remember looking though a calligraphy/graphic arts book a long time ago that had a kind of history for Japanese fonts.

Both of these have a modern spin on them, the one on the left is the most abstracted and "modern", from what I recall. It does my head in to try and figure out how the lines relate, but I suppose that's like some of the Far-out groovy fonts of the 1970s, that might leave off the left part of letters, so a D looks like a backwards C, and as a native speaker I have no trouble reading the word, but to anyone else it won't make sense.

I'm trying to say the differnt marks above are like a trademark for

~COLA

would be different than one for

-cola , I imagine

[argon38]

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@pixzee wrote:

I'm trying to say the differnt marks above are like a trademark for

~COLA

would be different than one for

-cola , I imagine

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Possibly. I tend to think they are simply variants used by the same firm, but I can't say for certain one way or the other. Either way, the OP's item is definitely marked "Bijutsu Toki," so it's a piece of information which can be added to the listing, at any rate.

P.S. I can't read Japanese either, but I'm confident about this one

[maxine*j]

Well, I repeat:  I know only what Gotheborg tells me.  I don't speak, read, or write Japanese.  I don't know anything about the histories of individual Japanese potteries, or how their marks might have changed through time. 

So, in addition to letting OP know, you may also wish to contact Gotheborg with your discoveries and doubts.   Gotheborg has never claimed infallibility, so I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

[argon38]

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@maxine*j wrote:
So, in addition to letting OP know, you may also wish to contact Gotheborg with your discoveries and doubts.   Gotheborg has never claimed infallibility, so I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

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Can't be bothered

As I say, I don't  know that they are the same company. Presumably Gotheborg has some info on the maker of the other item, but can't positively verify that the "unidentified" mark is the work of the same firm. Casey's interpretation of the characters is undoubtedly correct and is verified by the Japanese site. However, Gotheborg doesn't say that the characters can't be read, merely that the firm cannot be identified - so it isn't a mistake, they are just being rightly cautious.

[tofu107]

it is the  name of a company.

I know how to read Kansii

[maxine*j]

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@argon38 wrote:

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@maxine*j wrote:
So, in addition to letting OP know, you may also wish to contact Gotheborg with your discoveries and doubts.   Gotheborg has never claimed infallibility, so I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

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Can't be bothered

... Gotheborg doesn't say that the characters can't be read, merely that the firm cannot be identified - so it isn't a mistake, they are just being rightly cautious.

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Exactly.  The marks have differences.  One is identified by Gotheborg.  The other is still in their unidentified section.   That's all I ever said.   I don't feel I muddied the waters here.