eBay

sonomabarn67 · ‎09-29-2022

Didn't know if this board was still open 😄. Aprox 13' x13" engraved steel plates. The lady I bought them from said they were 15/16th century. They are hand engraved with applied silver dots and inlaid with silver inlay. What I would like to know is what does the artwork portray? it looks right for that period. I believe they were used as medallions in a cabinet. Do the scenes ring any bells? Very hard to get good photos, will try again tomorrow. Thanks!

sonomabarn67 · ‎10-04-2022

"How do you mean, your "second post"? It was something like post #9,868,230 of this interminable thread, by my count. The fact is, there was literally a two-day gap between you saying "i just found a double headed eagle but camera is on charge..." and posting the close-up. And I had to beg for it first."

Regardless, the photo of the double headed eagle was included in my first batch of photos in this thread. It was my second photo. I don't know why you didn't catch it then. I accept that you just skimmed and didn't see it. We all do that.

argon38 · ‎10-04-2022

@sonomabarn67 wrote:
OK, I meant to say first post, second photo. Does that work?

I put the double headed eagle in my second photo. Jeeze.

We're talking about the close-up shot (or at least I am). The one you provided in message #96 - after promising it in message #60: before leaving us all to guess where it was, and on which plate.

donsdetour · ‎10-04-2022

@sonomabarn67 wrote:
I

Folks this is on the horse, the one with the sunburst is riding.

sonomabarn67 · ‎10-04-2022

But that photo... was already posted, why didn't you catch such an important detail that would have saved you all this angst is the question? I think you are now a bit over the top. Let's just call this a draw, OK?

lacemaker3 · ‎10-04-2022

@argon38 wrote:
@lacemaker3 wrote:
Hindsight is always 20:20. It's very hard to predict what details will end up being useful, and which are not going to be helpful. If @sonomabarn67 had already known which details were the critical ones to unraveling the mystery, then this thread would not have been needed in the first place.
I think it stands to reason that heraldic details, if present, are going to help. The first version of the other plate had me searching for Greek helmets and Assyrian costumes, so little could I make out of what was going on.
Sonoma doesn't need protecting from fair criticism. He's the first to tell others how important good macro shots are, and he is right about that.

I was just making a stand for courtesy, because we all need more of that.

sonomabarn67 · ‎10-04-2022

Go look at the very first post in this thread where the double headed eagle made it's debut in the second photo.

argon38 · ‎10-04-2022

@sonomabarn67 wrote:
But that photo... was already posted, why didn't you catch such an important detail that would have saved you all this angst is the question? I think you are now a bit over the top. Let's just call this a draw, OK?

If you want people to see and understand the significance of details, the best approach is to provide good, clear, macro shots of your pieces. You're always telling people that, and rightly so. We all missed the double eagle in your initial photos, including people who are usually quite good at spotting such things. Doesn't that suggest your photos could have been better?

The angst I was talking about isn't mine, I had in mind the unnecessarily fractious state of the thread. The drip-feed hasn't helped matters, in my view.

argon38 · ‎10-04-2022

@lacemaker3 wrote:
I was just making a stand for courtesy, because we all need more of that.

We do, but some of us feel that honest criticism and debate - even vigorous debate - are compatible with the need for courtesy and sincere respect.

lacemaker3 · ‎10-04-2022

@argon38 wrote:
@lacemaker3 wrote:
I was just making a stand for courtesy, because we all need more of that.
We do, but some of us feel that honest criticism and debate - even vigorous debate - are compatible with the need for courtesy and sincere respect.

Oh, yes, absolutely.

A corollary of that, is that honest criticism, and vigorous debate, do not require, and are not compatible with, discourtesy or disrespect.

sonomabarn67 · ‎10-04-2022

Why are you attacking me like this? Did I say something that upset you? No matter what I say in response to your charges, you keep jumping on me with more.For everyone reading this dumpster fire, my intent on requesting good photos is for the good of the board so we can get past bad photos and directly get into solving the mysteries of the presented object, It has nothing to do with anything else. You know that. What are you going for here?

I asked before that we all just take it down a notch or two. Asking again.

argon38 · ‎10-04-2022

@lacemaker3 wrote:
@argon38 wrote:
@lacemaker3 wrote:
I was just making a stand for courtesy, because we all need more of that.
We do, but some of us feel that honest criticism and debate - even vigorous debate - are compatible with the need for courtesy and sincere respect.
Oh, yes, absolutely.
A corollary of that, is that honest criticism, and vigorous debate, do not require, and are not compatible with, discourtesy or disrespect.

So I have disrespected the Untouchable Sonoma by daring to suggest he might want to abide by the same advice he regularly dishes out to others? Mea maxima culpa. And it seems I've been discourteous too, although I can't recall a single occasion when I've ever said a single unpleasant word to anyone on this (or any other) board. I'd better stop right here, in case I'm accused of bullying and harassment for requesting good photos.

I'm done here. I'm sorry, but I really don't need this hassle.

Finished. Last post. Gone for good. Bye to all.

lacemaker3 · ‎10-04-2022

I didn't say that you were disrespecting Sonoma. Don't put words in my mouth that I never said. 'Nuff said on that.

As Sonoma said, this really should be taken down a notch. He doesn't deserve to be attacked like this, nor does anybody else. There's no need for this thread to be so toxic. Nobody deserves to be attacked like this. It really should never have happened.

Si hoc est interminabile; fortasse continuare desinas.

sonomabarn67 · ‎10-04-2022

I hope you are OK Argon- health wise. About 6 years ago I had one of those dealbreaker heart attacks and barely made it back from the other side/ It was totally out of the blue. Looking back, it made me irritable, paranoid, un-trusting, etc. There are many things that can cause those symptoms. Seriously, it wouldn't hurt to get things looked at by a health professional. I've noticed a change in your behavior as of late. Stay well my friend.

sonomabarn67 · ‎10-05-2022

Sorry, here they are. The circular marks look to be rows of rectangular divets hammered into the front of the steel to anchor the silver blobs. It must have disturbed the steel to form weak points that have rusted in those lobed patterns..

mmadigan · ‎10-06-2022

Thanks for the photos of the back. In my mind I was questioning if the metal was steel. I thought it might have been an alloy of tin or zinc. From the pictures the oxidation appears to be the color you would expect for iron.

I am still trying to understand the silver in my mind. It has been my experience over time when silver is exposed to air containing sulfur compounds it will tarnish. Of course with cheap labor you can polish the silver but I would think with the design it would be difficult. After 500 years I would not be surprise to see a build up tarnish on the edges which are difficult to reach or at corners where lines cross. Also would you see wearing away of the black due to polishing the silver?

Have you ruled out Aluminum as a possible metal? If it is aluminum it would date the pieces to early 1800's. At that time Aluminum was more expensive than gold. It was known for people to use Al instead of Ag to show their wealth.