eBay

mommamurfe60 · ‎04-25-2020

Hi, I need help to figure out what these are. I thought at first that they were 2 of the immortals. But the vases in their hands are the same. The imortals that I have seen have different items. The mark is a mark from 1796-1820. They are 20" high and the base is 5"×5". Any info will hel. Thanks.

argon38 · ‎04-28-2020

@raaphds wrote:
This is a very informative site.
http://asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=reply&RId=15391&gId=1&MSubject=Is+this+bowl+from+Jiaqi...

Yes, the Asian Art Forum is indeed very informative. I would definitely recommend that you post your figures there, since the experts there may know something about the originals.

If you carefully examine the genuine Jiaqing reign marks on the thread you linked to, you will see that they are handpainted. The reign mark on your pieces is rubber-stamped. I am very, very far from being an expert on this subject, so I could be wrong, but as far as I know reign marks were not applied with rubber stamps before the mid-19th century. See here for an example of your stamped mark on the Asian Arts Forum, and note the experts' assessment:

http://www.asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=102944&PHPSESSID=ssfrtquta0nh8c9v85jh...

maxine*j · ‎04-29-2020

The Asian Arts Forum is a great site, often recommended and linked to by several of us on this board.

Anyhow, you found an interesting and pertinent discussion, with agreement by the experts that the piece presented was made in the 20th Century.

The detailed information about the marks by calligraphers and about the calligraphy itself was especially good, including the statement:

"The stamped versions are of very little importance, and often they flooded the western market of the 19th century and until now."

raaphds · ‎04-29-2020

Yes so much valuable information. I'm learning a lot of valuable information. I buy and sell antiques and collectables for resell. This certainly helps on that treasure hunt. Education, education, education. Thanks for all your input. I tried loading photos on that site and they were too large. I have to figure that out. And yes I would love to find out info on the originals.

sonomabarn67 · ‎04-29-2020

Thank you so much for the apology! It's so nice when a thread takes a number of twists and turns but still ends up in a happy embrace of the truth.

argon38 · ‎04-29-2020

@maxine*j wrote:
The Asian Arts Forum is a great site, often recommended and linked to by several of us on this board.

Anyhow, you found an interesting and pertinent discussion, with agreement by the experts that the piece presented was made in the 20th Century.

I'm not sure that any of us here would have ventured to pronounce on the authenticity or otherwise of the bowl discussed in that thread. That's one for the specialists. But sometimes you don't have to be a qualified expert in order to see that something is wrong. And with all respect to the OP, I think this one of those cases where one glance at the base was enough.

sonomabarn67 · ‎04-29-2020

There are a considerable number of rebukes thrown at the auction house specialists when they do free appraisals that don't line up with the owner's expectations. There is a famous one on Youtube where a fellow goes over the top when he learns that ALL the Chinese porcelains he brought in are fake. I'll see if I can find it.

sonomabarn67 · ‎04-29-2020

Found it, it was Bonhams, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIyggud27aQ

The video has been edited from the version I initially saw. The guy was really rude and combative on that. This still looks bad though. He's just begging for a confrontation.

maxine*j · ‎04-29-2020

As an appraiser friend once said, more or less in these words: "I have more lives than a cat. Been killed more times than I can count. I'm the messenger, and you know what happens to the messenger when the news is bad."

I suppose the Bonham's guy could have tried to give detailed answers, but I believe he's learned to not waste his time trying to educate the belligerent.

sonomabarn67 · ‎04-29-2020

As I mentioned, this is a watered-down version. It's been a few years but the Bonhams specialist did his best to be polite to that guy who has found his inner enfant terrible that he aims at Bonhams sort of like a cottage industry of bad behavior. And on his channel, he has his cadre of those who have also had their fake Chinese porcelains brought to light through an accurate appraisal. He is one of those who won't learn.