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tdziemianowicz · ‎12-14-2014

I thought I would make this topic a bit more visible .... This previous thread morphed into a thread on finding images of Christian saints on coins:

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Coins-Paper-Money/Question-of-Variety-Authenticity-for-Medieval-Italian...

For those with an interest in the designs of medieval and Renaissance era European coins, you may enjoy browsing through it.

In the spirit of some other threads, there is also a running list, which (after some rearrangement) looks like this, and the encouragement of readers to add to it!:

1. Mary as Madonna - Hungary Ducats starting 16th c., Bavaria thalers 1770s, Nuremburg notgeld

Annunciation - Naples Charles II salute d'argento 15th c.

Mary is also shown "crowning" byzantine soverigns on some gold coins of the 11-12thc.

2. Michael the Archangel - Brabant esterlin 1267-94, England Edward IV gold angel, Vatican City 50 c. 1929-41, Zeitz notgeld

3. John the Baptist - Gold florins of Florence, France (Orange, Avignon), northern Germany 13-15th c., Testons of Florence.

4. Mary Magdalen - Papal States - Ancona teston 1582

Apostles/Evangelists:

5. St. Peter - Many papal states/Vatican City issues; Brabant gros, 14th c.

6. St. Andrew - Brunswick-Lunenburg thalers and fractions of 16th-17th c., Brabant florin Charles the Bold

7. Ss. James & John - Pesar mezzo paolo 1538-74

8. St. Thomas - Portuguese India Joao III (1521-57) gold

9. St. Mark - Venice grosso of 13-15th c. (and later Venice coins)

10. St. Matthew - Papal States piastre 1676

11. St. Paul - Munster 3 and 6 pfennig 1750s to 1770s; Papal States many issues including grosso of Benedict XIV (1740s) and Vatican City 20 centesimo of 1930s

Early Martyrs:

12. St. Stephen - Metz gros of 14-15thc and thalers of 17th, Halberstadt bracteates of 12-13th c. and thalers of 16-17th c.

13. St. George - (Antioch 1112-19; England/Gr Britain Noble Henry VIII, Crown, Sovereign 1817-; Bank of Canada token 1852, Ferrara grossone Ercole I 1471-1505; Mansfeld-Eisleben 1/3 Thaler 1671; Friedberg Thaler 1766

14. St. Alban - trade ducat, priory of St. Albans (Mains) 1712-1786

15. St. Antoninus - Borgotaro teston 1520s, Parma teston of 1622-46

16. St. Vitalis - Parma teston 1646-94

17. St. Ursus - Solothurn duplone 1797

18. St. Benigno - Abbey of Montanaro teston 1529-43

Others (many are medieval bishops who spread the faith, founded monateries, abbeys, founded religious orders ..)

19. St. Nicholas - Lorraine (Florin, 1608-24)

20. St. Killian - Wurzburg (Thaler 1685)

21. St. Patrick - Dublin tokens 1660s

22. St. Demetrius - Byzantine nomisma, 1080s

23. St. Theodore - Byzantine trachy, 1143-80

24. St. Martin - Lucca Scudo 1733, Bingen and Aschaffenburg notgeld

25. St. Ambrose - Milan Grosso 1395-1402

26. St. Vitus - Corvey 24 Mariengroschen 1753

27. St. Willibald - Eichstatt 5 Kreuzer 1750s

28. St. Romuald - Papl States

29. St. Stephan - Hungary 5 Pengo 1938

30. Ss Cyril & Methodius - Bulgaria 5 Leva, Slovakia 20 korun 1941

31. St. Maximinus - Trier notgeld issues 1920

32. St. Moritz - Magdeburg 1/24 Thaler 1607

33. St. Liborius - Paderborn Thaler 1620, 1786

34. St. Marinus - St. Marino 20 lire 1931-

35. St. Ludger - Werden & Helmstedt Thaler 1745; Werden notgeld

36. St. Hildegard - Kempten 1 & 2 kreuzer 1620s

37. St. Pope John XXIII - Cook Is. 2014

38. St. Pope John Paul II - Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Canada, Poland 2014

39. St. Gertrude - Wattenscheid notgeld

40. St. Gotthard - Gotha notgeld

41. St. Pancras - Iserlohn notgeld

42. St. Patroclus - Soest notgeld

tdziemianowicz · ‎01-18-2017

@elheron-grande wrote:
18 Janu 2017 0830hrs: Hola TDZ. Very interesting gold coin. However, gold coins &
Latin language are outta my sphere of knowledge.
The Obv was fairly easy to decipher. A coin of Franz Ludwig the big man of Wurzburg and Bamberg.
The only reference Heron could find for Apostoli was for a church in Rome- The Church of the 12 Holy Apostles.
It is possible that the figure depicted could be a 'representation' of the 12 Apostles?

Where is Norm, the Latin esspert, when we need him?
Or any Latin esspert ?
Regardos.

I think that "S. Kilianus c u m sociis ... " would mean "St. Kilian with his ..."

After that, I'm not sure if "francor" is the end of that phrase (use of the colon after the word or abbreviation francor), and then the word "apostoli" is separately pertaining to the two other figures. Or if it is meant to be one continuous legend "S. Kilianus c u m sociis francor apostoli."

tdziemianowicz · ‎01-18-2017

I should have done a bit more research ...

Here is the "official" version of the life of St. Killian:

An Irish monk, St. Kilian was consecrated Bishop, went to Rome with eleven companions in 686, and received permission from Pope Conon to evangelize Franconia (Baden and Bavaria). He was successful, with two followers - Colman, a priest, and Totnan, a deacon - in his missionary endeavors until he converted Gosbert, Duke of Wurzburg, who had married Geilana, his brother's widow. According to legend, while Gosbert was away on a military expedition, Geilana is reputed to have had the three missionaries beheaded when she found that Gosbert was going to leave her after Kilian had told him the marriage was forbidden by the Church.

http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=364

So we can now guess that the legend reads: "St. Kilian with his Franconian apostles."

The one holding the chalice is presumably the priest, Colman, and the one with the book is the deacon, Totnan.

It's a three-for-one. Great coin

*smedley* · ‎01-18-2017

@elheron-grande wrote:

Or any Latin esspert ?
Regardos.

i can translate any Latin, as long as it's either E Pluribus Unum or Cogito Ergo Sum...

elheron-grande · ‎01-18-2017

18 Jan 2017 1700 - Hola Smedley, your capability of translations is TWICE what Heron's would be...ha!

Regardos muchos.

elheron-grande · ‎01-18-2017

18 Janu 2017 1704: Hola TDZ - good research. Now it makes 'sense'. The Franco was not in my Latin - English dictionary. Heron would never have thunked it would be Franconia! Regardos Muchos.

tdziemianowicz · ‎01-26-2017

I recently discovered that the German city-state of Goslar (maybe elheron has a coin from here?) is a source of saint coins, and in particular, three apostles who I have not seen elsewhere.

St. Matthias is the one who was chosen to replace Judas Iscariot. Acording to Christian histories, he was killed by axe while preaching in Judea, so is shown with an axe and Bible. Silver groschen from late 15th/early 16th c.

There is also a Goslar groschen with images of the apostles Simon and Jude, but I cannot find a photo of one in good condition.

All appear to be candidates for the saints collection in the future.

elheron-grande · ‎01-27-2017

27 Jan 2017 1025hrs: Hola TDZ - good info re Saints on coins.

Yes, Heron does have a coin of Goslar.

It is a 1 Pfennig Copper with full date 1750. It has a depiction of the Madonna.

Some quick research in the KM Catalog of Germanian coins shows that from the early 1600s to the end of minting in Goslar, there was only the image of the Madonna.

Heron reported this 1750 Goslar coin on eBay Coin Chat about March 2012. [Per the coin info Heron has for the year 2012].

[PS - Heron thought of this 'thread' whilst driving to the Chinese Restaurante yesterday and seeing some snew on top of Mount San Antonio in the San Gabriel Mountings, overlooking the San Gabriel Valley and San Gabriel River! Also in that area is Mount San Jacinto. So many Saints here in Socal. By the way, the nickname for Mount San Antonio is Mount Baldy. Not Heron's idea! No way!]

tdziemianowicz · ‎01-27-2017

@elheron-grande wrote:
27 Jan 2017 1025hrs: Hola TDZ - good info re Saints on coins.
Yes, Heron does have a coin of Goslar.
It is a 1 Pfennig Copper with full date 1750. It has a depiction of the Madonna.
Some quick research in the KM Catalog of Germanian coins shows that from the early 1600s to the end of minting in Goslar, there was only the image of the Madonna.
Heron reported this 1750 Goslar coin on eBay Coin Chat about March 2012. [Per the coin info Heron has for the year 2012].

]

I thought you might have one from there!

The listing of the coin by the seller says "after 1470" (though not in English). In KM, this coin shows as MB#6 under Goslar, and "ca. 1540."

I have tried to make a priority of first collecting saints who were apostles (easier said than done). This is so far the only option with St. Matthias.

I did also notice that there were Mariengroschen minted from Goslar.

tdziemianowicz · ‎01-28-2017

@elheron-grande wrote:

[PS - Heron thought of this 'thread' whilst driving to the Chinese Restaurante yesterday and seeing some snew on top of Mount San Antonio in the San Gabriel Mountings, overlooking the San Gabriel Valley and San Gabriel River! Also in that area is Mount San Jacinto. So many Saints here in Socal. By the way, the nickname for Mount San Antonio is Mount Baldy. Not Heron's idea! No way!]

By chance, I just discovered another saint, and it happens to be one of the many San Antonios! This one is St. Anthony the Hermit, and he appears on a 1699 Thaler of Hildesheim (again, maybe an issuing authority represented in elheron's collection?). This is curious because he lived only briefly in Germany, but much farther to the south, in Bavaria. His dates are reckoned to be around 468-520 A.D. I dont know if he is the Antonio of your mountains (there were many holy Tonys).

As for San Gabriel, this angel is definitely present on coins, the "saluto d'oro" and "saluto d'argento" of Naples, which depict the Annunciation. Somewhere in the thread, I have posted an image of one. That's at least two of your mountain ranges!

Here is St. Anthony, (for auction elsewhere, starting bid 1750 euro - yikes!)

elheron-grande · ‎01-30-2017

30 Jan 2017 - 0825 hrs: Hola TDZ. Yes, 1,750 Euros would be a bunch of denaro!

Mount San Antonio, California [Socal]. Heron researched the name of this Mountain and found that it was named for San Antonio de Padua. Apparently one a the early Spanish ranchers in Socal was the guy that named the mountain for San Antonio de Padua.

[In the mid 1960s Heron studied the early land grants to Spanish 'ranchers'. Some of the land areas would be measured in square miles not 'acres' of land. Huge rancheros!] Mount San Antonio Cal highest point is 10,064 feets!

Different Subject: Hildesheim - yes, Heron has a coin from Hildesheim. However, it was not issued by the Bistum [Bishopric] but the Freistadt [Free City] of Hildesheim.

It does not have any depiction of Saints onnit. This coin is a 1/24 Thaler of 'silver'.

It is dated 1693. On the obverse there is an ornate Coat of Arms. Reverse has Holy Roman Empire 'orb'. Date is 16 orb 93. This coin was 'reported' on coin chat about

mid-2012. Perhaps Heron should search for a Bishopric Hildesheim coin to add to his list? It could be considered a 'different issuing authority'. Ha!...

Regardos.

tdziemianowicz · ‎01-30-2017

@elheron-grande wrote:
30 Jan 2017 - 0825 hrs: Hola TDZ. Yes, 1,750 Euros would be a bunch of denaro!

Mount San Antonio, California [Socal]. Heron researched the name of this Mountain and found that it was named for San Antonio de Padua. Apparently one a the early Spanish ranchers in Socal was the guy that named the mountain for San Antonio de Padua.
t.

St. Anthony of Padua (Padova) was, I think, the most recent St. ANthony, even though he died in 1231. I think his image is on some medieval coins of Padova.

His remains can still be seen in the bailica there.

elheron-grande · ‎03-17-2017

17 Marzo 2017 1440hrs: Hola TDZ: Heron just received a new addition to his small accumulation. It is a coin issue of Gubbio. It has a depiction of St. Paul with this legend surrounding: SANCTVS PAVLVS.

The depiction shows St. Paul standing.

Heron thought he would mention this for the 'Saints tred'. However, Heron acquired this item because it is a Gubbio coin and a new addition for Heron. This coin is a Quattrino and appears to be copper. There is a neat Coat of Arms on other side of coin.

It is 'dated' An III [1647]. So with this small treasure Heron has a Sankt, a Coat of Arms, and a 'new' issuing entity. More research is required.

[Another 'line' drawn through a name on the want list!]

Heron will report this item separately for the coins of Central & Oest Europa.

Regardos.

tdziemianowicz · ‎03-18-2017

Congrats on the new acquisition!

I think Gubbio was a Papal States issuing authority during this time frame? St. Paul features prominently on Papal States issues from several places during this period (including Rome, but also sevral other Italian cities). Second only to St. Peter.

The depiction of Paul I like best is with a sword and a book, acknowledging his earlier and later professions.

tdziemianowicz · ‎04-29-2017

Most recent acquisition to my saints collection: undated Metz gros during the medieval period (14th-15th c) bearing an image of St. Stephen, the patron saint of the city . Metz is now in the state of Lorraine in NE France.

Repeating comments earlier in the thread ... St. Stephen was the first martyred saint of the church, with his death related in the Acts of the Apostles, Chapter 7. Upon the "discovery of his bones in the Middle East in the 5th century, his cult spread quickly from Jerusalem to Constantinople, and then to Europe. By the mid-8th century, there was a shrine to St. Stephen in Metz (Prague and Halberstadt, Germany also have strong devotion to St. Stephen)