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Fake gold 2015 1oz $50 Canada Maple Leaf

Warning to gold coin buyers: I was sold a replica of the 2015 Canada $50 1 oz Maple Leaf (see pictures). The fake is easily recognizable as it measures 40 mm instead of 30 mm and weighs 30 g instead of 31. It looks dull and nothing like gold, and it smells like base metal, but it is not magnetic, maybe bronze? 

 

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Fake gold 2015 1oz $50 Canada Maple Leaf

I don't want to rain on the OPs post, but I posted this in the Coin Forgery eBay group a few days ago. I think it is relevant to this discussion.

 

Royal Canadian Mint Sells Fake Gold - Biggest Scandal of the Decade


Wow. This is scary stuff. A fake bullion 1 OZ bar was obtained from a RCM branch.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-30/could-be-huge-gold-bar-certified-royal-canadian-mint-expose...

 

Now, every sealed RCM bar obtained on eBay is suspect - regardless of whom sold it. Stay tuned...

Message 16 of 30
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Fake gold 2015 1oz $50 Canada Maple Leaf

Link doesn't work but I'm not sure that it's accurate. The mint itself sold the bar or a company "associated" with the RCM? It's easy to be misled with bars In assays. I'm sure somewhere down the line, someone got taken and then it just sold on from there. I wouldn't say that all RCM bars are suspect. You are aware that major suppliers keep xray and testing equipment to sniff that stuff out. I think this is an isolated event. Don't make people worried 

Message 17 of 30
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Fake gold 2015 1oz $50 Canada Maple Leaf

The bar did not come from the mint. It came from a bank. Don't get people worried for no reason friend 

Message 19 of 30
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Fake gold 2015 1oz $50 Canada Maple Leaf

Link appears to have been truncated. Here's the correct link:

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-30/could-be-huge-gold-bar-certified-royal-canadian-mint-expose...

 

Now this IS scary stuff. Comes from a Royal Bank of Canada branch.

Message 20 of 30
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Fake gold 2015 1oz $50 Canada Maple Leaf

Well they haven't done their homework. You can purchase these exact RCM 1oz bars sealed in Assay for $89 for 10 on alibaba. Also, apmex, Perth Mint, and credit Sussie ones are available as well. That's how it ended up in the blister. There are companies that make these items and sell as replicas as China allows this. They put a disclaimer that they cannot be involved if you portray the bar as real. It's quite a business in China, BUT every item has a flaw from the original. It's just SLIGHTLY off. Not noticeable to the trained eye but when passed through an xray test, shows copper or brass. You don't have to open your bar. Everyone do your homework! There are ways around situations like this

Purchase only from real companies, not single sellers. Very simple. Mcm, apmex, JM Bullion, Pinehurst coins are just a few. I've attached pictures of the bars avaliable for sale 

Message 21 of 30
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Fake gold 2015 1oz $50 Canada Maple Leaf

Well, I certainly hope you're being sarcastic.

 

Sorry, but "xray" (sic) technology is out of the question for online buyers, and even if you do get a dud because you are sophisticated enough to detect one (for instance, an XRF scan and partial bar destruction to get at the core or an acid test of the core), the scam seller will likely be gone with your funds in the blink of an eye, and you'll be stuck holding a toxic, (heavy-metal bar filled with lead, arsenic, cadmium, etc.) or one made from compressed tungsten granules that's scantily gilded. We've seen this happen hundreds, if not thousands of times here on eBay over the past decade+.

 

There is no "homework" to expect online buyers to perform. You can't educate yourself over this stuff anymore because the best of the fakes are indistinguishable from the real deal. This includes the bars themselves with identical markings, shapes and specific gravity (density) and the packaging/paperwork/microprinting/security devices/holograms, etc. The sad fact is that one shouldn't be buying this stuff at all -- unless one is able to purchase in person (at a brick and mortar dealer), and have an assay test and partial destructive test (to get at the core) performed directly in front of you as part of the sale & purchase agreement.

 

If the pros are being taken to the cleaners, there is little or nothing that can be done to help Joe the Plumber who wants to purchase a bar or two without changing buying behavior. The new mantra on bullion buying should be guilty until demonstratively proven innocent. I don't care who the seller is, buying gold bullion online based on pictures and trust is out of the question.

 

Sorry, my friend.  Sorry eBayers. The World has just moved one more notch into the danger zone. The online bullion buying is game over (QED).  Dont' say you weren't warned.

Message 22 of 30
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Fake gold 2015 1oz $50 Canada Maple Leaf

Keep in mind ebay uses PayPal. PayPal offers 90 days to 6 months protection. 90% of the time if you were scammed, you will get your money back. Also, if you were to buy Bullion online from someone or some company that doesn't take returns, don't buy it. Like I said, there are a few eBay stores and online stores that sell 100% guaranteed authentic Bullion products. Also, insure your items once you receive them. If it is a dud and you've tried to reach out and get a refund, then you can claim it to the insurance. I own a coin company and sell Bullion. Every purchase either online or in person, offer a 90 day 100% Satisfaction Guaranteed. We also xrf all items for customers on the spot. I think ngc should start certifying Bullion. Or someone should that will have a a good reputation 

Message 23 of 30
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Fake gold 2015 1oz $50 Canada Maple Leaf

I think you should stop misleading eBayers. Its folks like you who are living in a fantasy world. Times have changed and the old methods and means are obsolete. As I said before, online bullion buying has become too risky for the majority of folks, and most likely for ALL folks.

 

Yes, sure any bullion dealer will accept a return if the bullion is removed from the original packaging and the item sold shows evidence of an acid test or having been drilled-out, cut or otherwise severely damaged in a way that did not exist when the item was shipped to the buyer --- not.

 

Yes, just remove it from the original packaging and XRF it and it will be easily accepted back by the seller  --- not.

 

Yes, sure any coin dealer will refund a return on a slabbed coin where the slab has been dismantled or has evidence of tampering that wasn't there when the item was shipped to the buyer --- not. In fact, most coin dealers will not accept ANY returns if their original holder has been tampered or opened.

 

Your hypocrisy is stunningly backwards and misleading. Furthermore, it's wasting people's time and money as it is worthless and dated to a time that does not reflect the current conditions in the numismatic marketplace. PayPal is no panacea, as the limitations on refunds don't help anyone who discovers something is wrong outside of their quarterly time frame (90 days, as this was designed to help their Wall Street share investors, not online buyers). Credit card funding too, has its limitations, which are slightly better than PayPal's. If you are a legitimate brick and mortar dealer, you'd know that your state's commercial code, via the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) that's been adopted in whole or in part in all 50 states, provides a window for all buyers to bring claims of up to 24 months after the date of purchase against sellers based upon fraudulent goods transacted. These are the statutes that cover physical buying in a brick and mortar store -- not online. Buying bullion in a brick and mortar store is a lot less risky than buying online - regardless of who's the seller and whatever is the fancy warranty gimmick that's been expressed (often a marketing gimmick to engender a degree of confidence in an anonymous seller). Additionally, the Warranty of Merchantability in the UCC requires that whatever expressed or implied warranty that is offered by the seller, the onus of the item being a merchantable item is always on the seller -- not the buyer.

Message 24 of 30
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Fake gold 2015 1oz $50 Canada Maple Leaf

You don't have to remove the bar or coin from any cases, or, preform acid tests or drill a piece out. If the coin is in a authentic slab (verify by sending pictures to the grading company) then there is no need to worry. Plus, opening an ngc case is rather difficult. As for Bullion, you use something called ED-XRF spectrometers, which is part of a SPECTRO MIDEX, which we have. Most major companies and coin dealers have this On hand TO VERIFY gold bars without damaging them or taking them out of the Assay, that's the old way and in your delusional trust issues, you won't purchase online. You are just as likely to be taken in person than online. As for disputes, 6 months dear. You also can dispute with your credit card or bank or however you sent the money.

You should read up. As I stated before, even the replicas are just slightly off. The tone of the logo, thickness of Assay Card and others. You can buy Bullion online, just do your research and be smart! 

Message 25 of 30
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Fake gold 2015 1oz $50 Canada Maple Leaf


@independentcclcc wrote:

...coin dealers have this On hand...


horse hockey...

Message 26 of 30
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Fake gold 2015 1oz $50 Canada Maple Leaf

I think you're living in a time warp. So much of what you've mentioned in ths thread is obsolete and worse, incorrect and improper about verifying authenticity.

 

1) If the coin is in a authentic slab (verify by sending pictures to the grading company) then there is no need to worry.

 

The third party grading services do not authenticate via picture(s) sent over the internet. They do this with the item(s) in hand where they have access to analytical techniques to obtain quantitative information that can be used to detect anomalies with known specifications of their product and that of the original mint that made the numismatic item in the first place.

 

Both coins and slabs are forged, and slabs are also re-used outside of the grading services by sleazy operatives in their machinations to deceive and fleece folks.

 

2) Plus, opening an ngc case is rather difficult. 

 

Any third party slab can be opened and tampered. The NGC case can be EASILY opened by an experienced tamperer/thief. Some generations of slabs are much easier to open than others. I've even done it myself when "cracking" NGC coins out for re-submission. It's well known that the two parts of the shell cleave neatly with the right tools and a little experience. Creating a fake ultrasonic bond is easy, too.

 

3) As for Bullion, you use something called ED-XRF spectrometers, which is part of a SPECTRO MIDEX, which we have. Most major companies and coin dealers have this On hand TO VERIFY gold bars without damaging them or taking them out of the Assay, that's the old way and in your delusional trust issues, you won't purchase online.

 

Apparently you are unaware of the limitations of your EDXRF equipment. It's only good detecting a few millimeters into the object at best. It may work on your wafers and most 1 Oz bars, but it won't work on anything thicker.

 

http://www.horiba.com/scientific/products/x-ray-fluorescence-analysis/tutorial/penetration-depths/?L...

 

4) You are just as likely to be taken in person than online.

 

Unverifiable statement. This is indicative of ignorance and a shameless attempt to self-promote ones onling business. Yes, I have the same chance of being taken by a stranger, using an anonymous ID, living in a far-away place than I do with a professional at the coin shop in my hometown - not.

 

5) As for disputes, 6 months dear. You also can dispute with your credit card or bank or however you sent the money.

 

I'll take 24 months any day of the year over a 6 month maximum period to obtain a refund. Good luck trying to ever get funds back on a personal check payment once it's cleared!

 

6) You should read up. As I stated before, even the replicas are just slightly off. The tone of the logo, thickness of Assay Card and others. You can buy Bullion online, just do your research and be smart!

 

Evidence of an unrepenting liar proffering bad information to the numismatic buying public. Yes, I probably read as much as anyone about numismatics and forgery here on eBay. You don't think those who are hell-bent on fleecing you aren't burning the midnight oil to develop new forgeries? It's never the snake in the lawn that gets you, its the one that you don't see that gets you. Moving ahead with delusional blinders and technological faith is just too risky for a lot of folks, including myself.

 

I sincerely hope you have luck outwitting the International criminal syndicates that are involved in making and distributing a whole range of this nefarious stuff. With the limitations of your thinking and mindset, you've set yourself up for victimization and the creation of victims as your online buyers.

Message 27 of 30
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Fake gold 2015 1oz $50 Canada Maple Leaf

As I re-read my posted post, I thought, well what does user "independentcclcc" sell here on eBay. I went to check listings and I see the user is NARU.

 

htttps://contact.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserIdHistory&requested=independentcclcc

Message 28 of 30
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Fake gold 2015 1oz $50 Canada Maple Leaf

Fake gold 2015 1oz $50 Canada Maple Leaf

Same with me. I received a 2015 and a 2019 from ebay seller joteic56. Thought i got a great deal until they showed up in the mail. The 2015 was huge. 40mm and weighed 30 grams. The 2019 was the correct size but weighed 28 grams. Thankfully paid with paypal through ebay and received a full refund. I was thinking of calling the police to report this as the seller lives on Ontario Canada. That is where i am from

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