Counterfeit items and trafficking together countries?

[klm5660]

I am looking for some advice on what to do with a "cell phone" that was shipped by a seller to someone else and was ultimately determined by a tech at an official company to be a counterfeit. 

The problem is that the shipment came from South Korea and the seller wants it shipped to China from the US for a refund, the item Is a counterfeit and checking the laws, there is 18 USC 2320 which makes it federal crime to do that.

I have already reported and taken this up with Ebay but they are of no help. 

[ebooksdiva]

Since the seller is not in the US, In order to return the item you would need to talk with the seller and make arrangements to get your Paypal email address to them to send you funds to return the item so you can be refunded. 
There is no crime in returning the item for a refund. That statute pertains to selling. You aren't selling it. 

[mudshark61369]

@klm5660,

"I am looking for some advice on what to do with a "cell phone" that was shipped by a seller to someone else and was ultimately determined by a tech at an official company to be a counterfeit".

Do you mean you had the phone shipped to a friend or family member.  If that is the case the return shipping would have to be calculated from their location.

The second issue is how long after the phone was delivered, was it discovered to be counterfeit or not as described.  You only have 30 days from the date of delivery to file an item not as described (INAD) dispute.  FYI, there are 2 reasons why the item is INAD, in this case.   It was counterfeit, and the item location was misrepresented. 

  For not as described disputes, once one is filed, the seller has to respond within 3 days by either sending you a return shipping label or a full refund.   Because they are in a different country they can't buy postage from the U.S. for the return.  They can request that you get a return shipping estimate using a service that has tracking.  Then they either send you the funds, within  few days,  or from the dispute you can ask ebay to step in.

You need to read the terms and time frames of ebay's Money Back Guarantee.  There is a link to the policy below the payment method icons under the Shop with confidence header on the listing page.

[klm5660]

The seller shipped the item to someone else, it was an address different than the one I gave on the order, I have no idea why the seller did that unless they wanted the item to intentionally bounce. An "overly helpful government official" helped find the item and bring it to the manufacturer for testing.

This happened in less than a few days (within 30 days), so its within the return period.

But the problem is that they determined the item to be a counterfeit and I'm concerned about ITAR and other US export laws involving a device that is behaving very differently from what it was advertised that came from Korea and the seller wants it exported ("returned") to China.

There are several US federal laws and other export regulations I don't want to be any defendant of.

The seller offered to "send my friend to come to your home to pick it up" so I gave him the address to Verizon where the phone they shipped to and determined to be a counterfeit but he never showed up

[klm5660]

Can "assault weapons", Itar regulated technology, firearms, and schedule 3 drugs be "returned" to other countries as long as the seller was selling it?

[kathiec]

You're complicating the issue with hypotheticals that have nothing to do with your issue. There is zero case law of a buyer in the US being prosecuted for returning a counterfeit item. The only cases of sellers being prosecuted are a very few large-scale US-based seller/manufacturers. So no, if you return the phone IPR agents won't pound on your door in the middle of the night and cart you off to jail.

So if you want a refund you'll need to open an item not as described case with eBay. Ebay will require the seller to pay for return shipping upfront. Since the tracked shipping eBay requires is quite expensive to either South Korea or China, few sellers will provide those funds. If they don't, you can ask eBay to step in, they'll refund without requiring a return, and you can destroy the phone.

[klm5660]

Again, I wouldn't take the legal risk to break federal law just because no one else has been prosecuted. Hypothetically I could get prosecuted just as much as I could hypothetically not.

I have opened several cases and the seller has been spamming me with many "return labels" making claims about the device being something else.

I'm just not comfortable and need (legal) options and advice on what to do with this situation as I've already incurred a lot of legal expenses already. The seller isn't willing to refund any of that.

[ebooksdiva]

This discussion is about a cell phone. Weapons and drugs are not part of the conversation.

[ebooksdiva]

If you don't want to return it to get your money back, then there's nothing more that can be done. 

[klm5660]

Um, I'm not going to send an illegal item to a foreign country just to get my money back. Are you for real? I mean, I'm not even being paid to traffik , and I wouldn't. 

[kathiec]

 All we're telling you is that eBay won't force a refund unless the phone is returned. What you do with that information is totally in your hands.

[klm5660]

It's not a "cell phone". It's a device that mimics a cell phone but according to the manufacturer who tested it determined it's not a device that they make, it's allegisly a counterfeit, it's not a cell phone.

[klm5660]

What phone?  Have you read my original post thoroughly? 

There is NO CELL PHONE  for me to return to anyone.

The seller sent a device to someplace else in my town that an official intercepted and suspects may have been the sellers package.

The device was taken to the manufacturer and determined NOT to be a cell phone. Its function is uncertain and I didn't authorize more money to do some CSI  investigation on it.

Its officially a counterfeit and it was never addressed to me, it's not in my possession. I have nothing legal to return, even if i ship that device to a hostile country I'd be breaking US federal law.

I'm not doing that, I'm looking for lawful reasonable safe options that offend involve felonies, please

[ebooksdiva]

Then file a chargeback with your credit card. 

[mudshark61369]

@klm5660,

"Have you read my original post thoroughly?"

Yes we did and nowhere in it did you mention it was nothing more than a counterfeit phone. You have let out other partial  information in dribs `n drabs in a few of your other replies, but still have not given us or any attorney enough to go on, to give sound legal advice.  10 hours after I replied you wrote

"The seller shipped the item to someone else, it was an address different than the one I gave on the order, I have no idea why the seller did that unless they wanted the item to intentionally bounce".

That would be an item not received dispute, if you never received the item.

"An "overly helpful government official" helped find the item and bring it to the manufacturer for testing".

The "government official " was a post office employee, they only would retrieve the item from who ever received it, if that person called or brought the item in and said we received something we did not order. FYI, Post office employees Are Not traditional Federal Employees since the USPS is only a quasi federal agency.

Basically they had no right to do what they did, "send it for testing".   I have never heard of a Mfr. receiving and testing a piece of electronic equipment of any kind, within a few days.  On average the turn around time is 30-60 days.  However, if they or an authorized dealer are given a serial number they can determine over the phone whether or not an item. is a counterfeit.

"It's not a "cell phone". It's a device that mimics a cell phone but according to the manufacturer who tested it determined it's not a device that they make, it's allegisly a counterfeit, it's not a cell phone".

Did no one tell you what the device actually was? I have heard of spy/nanny cams, or tracking devices that are made to look like cell phones.  Those in and of them selves are not illegal, but how they are used by someone, to gather information can be illegal.  Then there are the phones advertised to be a given Mfr.'s item which are not, and are counterfeit items.

In looking at your feedback left. There is a negative for a seller whose item locations are given as HK, China. HK standing for Hong Kong.  In the comment you say the item was sent to the wrong address, and you spent weeks and your own money tracking it down. Which to me indicates you may be past the 30 day time frame for filing an ebay dispute through regular channels.   Any money you spent other than for the item its shipping cost and sales tax, cannot be refunded to you. 

  That being said, if there is still some of the 30 days left, you may have one more option left open to you, since the item was not addressed to you, which is a fake tracking number scam, that ebay has trouble dealing with, because of the privacy policies of shipping agencies. Fortunately, the USPS is the easiest one to deal with.

That option would be to contact ebay through one of their social media sites.  Before you do, you will need to contact the "overly  helpful  govt. official"   if they are a postal employee and get them to write you a note on USPS stationary, stating that the package was not addressed to the address given on the Order details.  Do not ask them to give the actual label address, they cannot give it out. They need to print their name and sign and date the note.  There are more details on what to do after you have the note in the link below. Once you open it click on the Go to Best Answer button.  The 4th & 5th paragraphs explain what you need to do to get a refund, and you will not have to send the item back. 

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Buying/Fake-Tracking-information/m-p/34266951#M475809

For future reference you need to know that,  while many items are made in China for Brand Name Mfr.'s, chinese sellers are NOT allowed to sell them outside of China. Something the chinese ignore often in attempts to scam people.  Had you looked at the seller's country of registry on their feedback profile page, you would have seen they registered from China.  FYI,  It is not against the law to return a counterfeit item to the original sender.  The ITAR regs, do not apply in these situations.