Questions......

[sheepscotrivertraders]

Hi Carol, I am new to button collecting. I became interested in buttons when I was looking for interesting embellishments to use on felted bags that I make. I had no idea that there are so many different kinds of buttons out there!! And many different prices! It is very confusing and it seems that many of the sellers on eBay don't really know much about them either. What is the difference between celluloid and bakelite? Which is more desirable? Do the bakelite "tests" really work? (I can't seem to get any of them to work anyway!) How do you know if you are paying too much? Are big lots a better deal? (I have bought a lot of disappointing junk buttons that way) What do you do with useless junk buttons?just toss them?(I'm starting to think that they just get sold in lots on eBay!:) ) What is the best way to clean old buttons? Is there a book that you would recommend for new button collectors? Thanks for having this group!! I find it all very fascinating!! JackieR

[sheepscotrivertraders]

Does anyone know anything?

[svengali]

First, it pays to be patient when you post to this group, so don't expect instant replies. The answers to many of your questions are contained in previous questions by others who have stopped by this group. Please look at previous discussions about testing for bakelite. I really don't want to repeat that rather lengthy discussion when it's already here to read. Learning the difference between bakelite and celluloid is up to you. We all learn at our own pace but there are books out there to help you understand the difference. There are many beautiful and fine celluloid buttons and likewise bakelite. Bakelite will be a little newer than celluloid typically. The only bakelite test I feel works is the hot point test. Many button collectors have learned how to do this test without messing the button up. I can elaborate more once you've checked the other discussions if you find something unclear or missing from my previous posts describing how to do the hot point test. Chemical tests are unreliable as is Simichrome polish that so many jewelry books recommend. Sometimes these tests work but sometimes not and you might not be testing bakelite. We never know if we are paying too much unless we make it our business to learn what values buttons have in the marketplace. eBay is a good place to research what buttons go for but those values can be skewed by determined bidding. Visiting button shows can give you a good idea of what a wide range of buttons are valued at. Over time I've learned to collect better buttons instead of piles of them, but that's just me. Depending on why you buy buttons, large lots can be a lot of fun to get and use. If you collect seriously, it's recommended to save up and buy one or two really good buttons instead of a pile of so-so stuff. I give non-collectible buttons away to whomever wants them. Many school art teachers will welcome a donation of clean (not glass) plastic buttons for kids to use in art projects. I also give bags of non-collectible buttons to my local charity thrift store so they can use them to replace buttons on otherwise marketable outfits which are missing buttons. I never throw a button away unless it's wrecked in some way. There are many ways to clean buttons, methods to use depend on the material. I like 2 books currently on the market by Debra Wisniewski. Google her, she has a website where she sells her own books and she'll show up as an author on book sites and on eBay where her button books are often sold. Sorry if this info is not as specic as you might have liked, feel free to follow up with more questions if you'd like. -Carol C-

[sheepscotrivertraders]

Thanks for the info. I did not mean to bother you. I just wondered if any of the other members knew something about buttons. This is a large group, but it seems,not very chatty. Wouldn't it be nice to have a little more activity here?

[svengali]

You aren't bothering anyone. This is a button chat group so your questions are appropriate. The other members don't seem to post that often. I guess we all stop by as we have time. More activity would be nice, of course.

[the-responder]

Hi There, The Responder here, I hate to tell you this but buttons is a big subject especially polymer buttons, which bakelite and celluloid are a part of. If you want to learn more, I recommend joining a local button society. Nothing like touching a button to get to know the material it is made out of. When you see a cellulose nitrate button next to a bakelite, you can see the differences in the material. To locate one near you, visit the Colorado State Buttons Society web site. We list buttons links and our library list is on line. Far as celluloid buttons there are two types: Cellulose Nitrate and Cellulose Acetate. Cellulose Nitrate was invented in Europe initially in 1835 to replace ivory pool balls. Celluloid is a product name used by Isaiah Hyatt to describe the Hyatts’ Cellulose Nitrate product in the US; it is used to describe a button like we use kleenex to describe a tissue product. The heat test is used for this particular celluloid button and smells like camphor. Cellulose Nitrate had some problems, like catching on fire and it doesn't hold well in a sealed container. Cellulose Acetate was invented in 1894 to replaced the problem Cellulose Nitrate and it doesn't smell when the heat test is done. So how do you know what you have? First of all beware of the heat test on polymer buttons, you will be breathing fumes that are not health for you. I don't recommend it. Just remember button reflect fashion history. Thanks

[sheepscotrivertraders]

Thanks! I will look to see if there is a button group in Maine.

[svengali]

I do recommend learning how to test buttons correctly without harming them. A hot point test may leave a small mark on the back but generally only on celluloid buttons which have a very low melt point. As with every testing method, some harm could come to the button and care must be taken. Many of us believe the crazy household chemical tests will also eventually harm the buttons even if it isn't readily evident, so there are valid points for discussion on each side of the testing debate. I have located the National Button Society membership booklet which they send to members every year, another good reason to join the NBS if you have an interest in buttons and learning more. There is no state button society in Maine but there are several district clubs. The towns these clubs are located are as follow: Strong, Bridgton, Warren, Waterville and Sanford. Let me know which one you are closest to and I'll e-mail you the name and address of the local club contact person. Most clubs welcome visitors for a few meetings, then they prefer that you join the club. Club dues are generally very low, perhaps $10 or less per year. I believe the folks in Maine take part in the annual NRBA Show, this is a show combining many of the northeastern button societies and is a very well attended annual button show. It is usually held in one of the NE states for easy access to most members from surrouning states. -Carol C-

[sheepscotrivertraders]

Great!! Thanks Carol!! The town closest to me is Warren. I agree that all these tests have got to be doing some damage to the buttons. I have decided not to be too concerned with what a button is made of and just get what I like!:) (and can afford!) Jackie

[svengali]

I sent you the name/address of the contact person for the Warren, Maine button club. Check your e-mail or go to your My eBay area and check your mail there Messages sent thru eBay's system will often only show up in your messages area at My eBay rather than your actual e-mail account. About testing, I've had luck testing bakelite with windex or a windex-like window cleaner product. I just put some on a qtip and rub in a small area on the back of the button. You are looking for a yellowish-to-amber color. This should not hurt the button but may not detect all types of bakelite such as the brighter colored "catalin" variety. I call this a "quick and dirty" test which should not harm the button. People were using dow bathroom cleaner (with scrubbing bubbles) to test bakelite and I have seen color changes and problems develop from using this harsh chemical. I don't use it anymore. Sometimes I don't feel like plugging my hot tool in to test so I will use windex instead. If I get positive test, I don't test further with a hot point. The tool we use is actually for pyrography art (wood burning art) and some button dealers carry this tool. Many of us have been trained in how to hot point test with the least possible damage through those who have researched plastics, know what they are doing and have held seminars on this subject at big button shows. If not practiced in how to do this, it's probably not a good idea to try without some guidance. -Carol C-

[okearly]

Hello Jackie, I too am a new button collector and find identifying some buttons quite confusing. The advice given above is really good. I've joined the national association. They send you some wonderful bulletins. They also have written guides that are quite inexpensive. I found a local group too which is great as I just bring in the buttons that I have questions on and they are more than willing to help me identify them. Sometimes you can find your button on e-bay and they tell you what it is in the auction. Button Buttonbytes is a on line group that has study groups on different buttons (this month has been glass buttons) very informative. There is a button web where different dealers advertise their buttons, giving you a glimpse of some of the very best buttons out there. I've sold my extra "good" buttons in lots on E-bay but the best of the best are usually sold individually. I work in the public school system and just leave a bag of buttons from time to time in the teachers lounge. Someone can always use them. And yes, in general, button group people seem to be a less chatty group than some other groups I have belonged to. Good luck with your buttons!! Karen P

[caspiantern]

Hi, checking in to say hello and ask for information about button clubs in Maryland. I am doing much better healthwise and still very much interested in buttons. The info on here is very helpful and informative. Thanks to all. Caspiantern

[svengali]

As I've mentioned before, it is very useful for people to join the National Button Society. Every member gets a complete directory of all members of the society and all state and local societies and clubs. This is an excellent way to start out, by joining the NBS. Dues are $25 per year. If you'd like to find out where to send dues, just comment back here and I'll post the info. -Carol C-

[up_country_crafts]

Hello Jackie! I was just snooping around around in here to see what was buzzing about buttons and here you are!I could bring a few of the buttons I picked up this summer to the meet in January for you to poke through if you like. I have so many buttons I intend to list and have sold a few but....not alot of luck. I saw a yellow butterfly lucite button in someones collection here which I have two pink ones like. I bought a book and found a few that I have, but my buttons are so different that I guess I need to buy more books on buttons or find cool jars to display them in. I did make a lamp out of buttons and a green canning jar. The buttons belonged to one great grandmother (of my daughter) and the jar to another so someday she will have a keepsake from two. Oh...my name is Gerry and I belong to another group with Jackie.

[the-responder]

Gerry, The jar is great idea, but be aware of Celluloid buttons which are not aloud to breath. They can destroy other buttons because of the fumes they produce. How do you know you have an old Celluloid button? By the smell when you open up the jar - it smells like camphor. If there is no smell, you should be OK. Just check and make sure, so these treasures can be passed down. Thanks - Linda at The Responder