Firetruck

[antiquesandartstore]

Hello

can someone please help me identify this truck? Maker, age? Any information will be helpful, thank you! 

[mudshark61369]

@antiquesandartstore,

It would help to identify this Horse Drawn Hook and Ladder toy, if you added a photo of it with the horses attached and the ladders hung on the trees .  Also the measurement front to back. Many of the Hook & Ladder toys were fairly long, ranging from 24" to 35", with some Mfrs. making them in several lengths.

I am leaning towards saying this is a Hubley made toy, because the horses do not have the "Hip or Breaching" straps molded on the horse's rears, and the front parts of the harnesses are somewhat overly large.   While Dent's horses did not have the hip & breaching straps either, their front wagon wheels were usually smaller than the rear ones on their "Wagons".   Their harnesses were more to scale as well.

  The ladder hanging "trees" are very similar to the ones Hubley used as well. The Drivers poses are similar on many cast iron fire wagon toys, and it is known that some of the Mfrs. bought parts from each other, which was also a common practice with tin toy Mfrs. Hubley supplied parts to several of them.

  The one thing that is the strongest evidence of this being a Hubley toy is the black rubber tire on the tow bar.  Most of the earlier front tires on horse drawn vehicles had spokes and were made of metal.  A few from the late 20s early 30s had white rubber tires. However since horse drawn cast iron toys were being replaced by cars and trucks, only a few Mfrs. continued making them into the thirties when black rubber tires were more common. Hubley used small black tires on their cast iron Indian and Harley Davidson police motorcycle toys made in the mid 30s. Earlier ones had Mazak/Zamak metal tires. They were sort of like "training wheels" that held the motorcycle upright so they could be pushed/pulled across a floor. They also used black rubber tires on some of their airplane and boat toys, later in the 30s.

Hubley continued to make some of its cast iron toys after the WWII metal restrictions were lifted, but stopped production of them in 1949. It would have been very likely the front tire would be a black rubber one, if the toy was one of the ones made post war.

[antiquesandartstore]

Thank you, it’s 15” long. 

[mudshark61369]

@antiquesandartstore,

That helps somewhat.  Unless I can find some info about a "short" Hook and Ladder toy it would appear that despite what I wrote Hubley might not be the Mfr.  Dent did make a 14" H&L but it had "mechanized" horses that moved up and down because of an offset wheels connected to the horses.

All of the other well known cast iron toy Mfr.'s made either longer units, and some short ones that had 3 or four horses, and one driver. Some even had "riders" firemen holding on to the sides. I was thinking this could be a Post 1949 toy issued by Hubley made with die cast metals, but the patina on your piece suggests it is a cast iron toy. The paints used on die cast toys tended to chip or crack not rub and fade like it has on this one. Though paint crazing is not unusual on cast iron toys. They were also made of non ferrous metals that didn't rust. However, if the set is not that heavy it could be a die cast toy.

Have you looked carefully at the side of the rubber tire to see if there is a Mfr. name on it?  Also does the tire have a parallel or checked tread. Also a careful inspection of the bottom of the toy for a number. It might be a 3 digit one with or w/o a letter after it.

Right now because I'm renovating my library, I can't access the hundreds of books, catalogs, magazines etc. about vintage/antique toys, I have because they are all boxed up. It would take years and wreck my back to find the box(es)  with the right info in them to help you further. Out of frustration I did do a search of 15"  cast iron horse drawn fire engines and H&Ls.  I did find many listed on ebay, etsy, worthpoint etc. Most look like repops of the Kenton H&L that had smaller diameter front wheels, and most have very clean and bright paint. I do know for a fact that several Kenton and Arcade cast iron toys have been reproduced and people are selling them as vintage/antique pieces.

below are the links I did for 2 google searches that show come of the ones listed or sold.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&sca_esv=c5fb69bdefab0649&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn08u...

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=15%22+long+cast+iron+horse+drawn+hook+and+ladde...

[antiquesandartstore]

Thank you very much!