Proper disposal of counterfeit

[angry_hermit]

Last week, I received a counterfeit item from a seller whose business model is that the percentage of buyers he can fleece will more than cover return shipping for everyone else.  Thus I do not want to return the item; I want to turn it over to law enforcement.

The money-back guarantee alleges that "If a buyer reports that an item is counterfeit, and there are strong indicators that the item is counterfeit, we may not require the buyer to return the item to the seller. The buyer agrees to cooperate with us to ensure proper disposal of the item."

eBay claims to be agnostic about the authenticity of items.  Even when counterfeits are listed with authenticity disclaimers and reported, they are not taken down.  So they propagate and get resold without disclaimers and contaminate the marketplace.

Has anyone managed to convince eBay that one of the myriad counterfeits eBay markets and skims FVFs from should be turned in or destroyed rather than returned to the seller to foist onto the next unlucky bidder?  What exactly was the successful procedure?

The customer service representative I talked to on the phone said something about a signed statement from a licensed retailer but failed to provide specifics.  And promised me a "courtesy email" which never arrived.  I am looking for concrete directions in writing so that when I spend an entire afternoon to get corroboration, it comes in a form eBay will acknowledge.

I am also looking for concrete directions on getting red feedback to stick so future bidders won't see 100% and have to read through the greens to discover the prevalence of returns.

[ed8108]

Can you secure a sworn statement  with signature notarized?

[couldabeenworse]

The customer service representative I talked to on the phone said something about a signed statement from a licensed retailer but failed to provide specifics.

That seems specific enough for me, and would achieve it's objective of getting me to either return the item or take the matter up with somebody other than eBay.  If I wanted to pursue it further, it would be through the manufacturer, law enforcement or maybe my credit card issuer.

[missjen831]

The customer service agent gave bad info as asual. A licensed retailer cannot authenticate. A sales clerk is who would be looking at the item and deciding whether it’s fake or not and they are NOT trained to do that. When eBay asks for proof, they want it to be from a 3rd party authenticator. 

Its hard to convince eBay the item is counterfeit and should be destroyed. eBay can’t see and inspect the items and even if they could, eBay employees no brand experts. That is why in most cases the buyer is told to return for a refund.

[the_fancy_fox]

I think your best option is to open a SNAD claim. Seller will have to pay to get the item back.

 Would you rather fight a battle no one really cares about or get your money back?

Get your money back and then report this seller to the rights holder. If the rights holder doesnt care or does nothing to stop those conterfiet sales, then you can assume they dont care either.

[castlemagicmemories]

When you get a licensed expert authentication performed, you can pay quite a bit for it, possibly $100.00.  That may or may not help you.  Documents may be forged.  Neither Ebay nor the seller is responsible for paying this.

So Ebay seeks to undo the transaction and usually requires a return.  If you want to forego the return, that is your right but you give up your refund then, too.  Buyers have been known to insist something is counterfeit, but then were found to be wrong.  Not saying this is you, but it is a general possibility.  Another reason why Ebay may not require destruction of the item.

There are no concrete directions for getting a negative to stick as there are too many variables that cannot be accounted for.  But you can read the Feedback polkicy for a general outline of what is allowed and what is not.

[angry_hermit]

Seller will gladly pay $3 to get back an item he can eventually resell for far more than that to someone who can't tell counterfeit from genuine.  Absorbing shipping both ways on half his sales and making a tenfold or greater profit on the rest is his business model.

I would rather fight this battle and establish precedent.  The money matters less than the integrity of the marketplace where I have been doing business.  Frauds undercut honest sellers, waste buyers' time, and destroy consumer confidence.  eBay claims to prohibit sales of counterfeit items yet acts to facilitate them.  It is time to take a stand.

I asked if anyone had managed to convince eBay to live up to its stated policy because I can believe that has never happened once.  But I'd be glad to see it happen.

[alcoforever]

I'm not so sure a signed & notarized paper from an authenticator would help.   How do you prove the certificate was for the item you received?

Better to just open the SNAD, send the item back and get your refund.  Enough with the drama already.

[creoleorchid]

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@angry_hermit wrote:

I want to turn it over to law enforcement.

Your local LE will not take it. Go here and file a complaint: https://www.stopfakes.gov/article?id=U-S-Consumer-Product-Safety-Commission

The money-back guarantee alleges that "If a buyer reports that an item is counterfeit, and there are strong indicators that the item is counterfeit, we may not require the buyer to return the item to the seller. The buyer agrees to cooperate with us to ensure proper disposal of the item."

See bolded "may".

  Even when counterfeits are listed with authenticity disclaimers and reported, they are not taken down. 

Many are, many more are not. All you can do is report them.

Has anyone managed to convince eBay that one of the myriad counterfeits eBay markets and skims FVFs from should be turned in or destroyed rather than returned to the seller to foist onto the next unlucky bidder?  What exactly was the successful procedure?

I have never read nor heard of this happening.

The customer service representative I talked to on the phone said .....

I don't need to read any more than that. You can never trust what an ill trained, time clock bound outsourced CS rep tells you.

.  And promised me a "courtesy email" which never arrived. 

See above.

I am looking for concrete directions in writing so that when I spend an entire afternoon to get corroboration, it comes in a form eBay will acknowledge.

It won't happen.

I am also looking for concrete directions on getting red feedback to stick so future bidders won't see 100% and have to read through the greens to discover the prevalence of returns.

Feedback will be removed if you open a case and lose. You should win this. It will also be removed if you use profane , threatening or inappropriate  language or wait more than 60 days to leave it.

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[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

Strong indicators = Real Proof
Other than that you have merely an opinion and will be required to return the item as it should be.

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

And they mean a "licensed appraiser"...which can cost anywhere or $100 - $200 an item on average.

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

You are also not going to set a precedent. It has "all" been done many times over already.

[couldabeenworse]

I am also looking for concrete directions on getting red feedback to stick so future bidders won't see 100% and have to read through the greens to discover the prevalence of returns.

Return the item as eBay directs, and do not communicate further with the seller.  A seller who knows the ropes can probably get any negative removed, but failing to return or making any reference to feedback makes it too easy.

[the_fancy_fox]

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@angry_hermit wrote:

Seller will gladly pay $3 to get back an item he can eventually resell for far more than that to someone who can't tell counterfeit from genuine.  Absorbing shipping both ways on half his sales and making a tenfold or greater profit on the rest is his business model.

I would rather fight this battle and establish precedent.  The money matters less than the integrity of the marketplace where I have been doing business.  Frauds undercut honest sellers, waste buyers' time, and destroy consumer confidence.  eBay claims to prohibit sales of counterfeit items yet acts to facilitate them.  It is time to take a stand.

I asked if anyone had managed to convince eBay to live up to its stated policy because I can believe that has never happened once.  But I'd be glad to see it happen.

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And nobody cares. Your not the first nor will be the last to be offended because some has been sold a fake item. If ebay doesnt care, you are going to wage a war against fraud that frankly, is a waste of your time. You wont set a precedent, every seller you can get taken down a dozen more will spring up. Buying online is truely buyer beware.

If you want to dump some money into this rat hole to prove a point, go get a certified written statement from a expert that the item is 100% counterfiet. Then go to ebay with it.  The best your going to get out of this is a refund and get to keep the item. Maybe. They still might demand you return the item.

Hate fakes? So do I. I am a gardener. Look up Milk Melon seeds, or how about those fancy tomatoes where every one in the cluster is a different flourescent color..... all FAKE. I can name dozens of items in the catagories I buy in that are 100% fake.  My solution? I dont do business with those sellers.

Want to sue ebay over it? Better read the user agreement. You are manadated to arbitration. And at best? You will get your money back.

How much is your time worth to you?

[audjorg0]

Just fille the snad, return it and move on.