Empty return envelopes...Who's got one? How did it turn out?

[reed-sales]

So my most recent return has been a nightmare.

To start with, we don't offer returns.

Buyer sent the following messages.  Shown are my replies to each.

Message #1

New message from: golden-age1
Hello -- when is this shipping? It's a birthday present, time is of the essence. Please advise asap. Thank you, Lori

Reply from: reed-sales
Hello our eBay items are listed with a 3 business day handling time. We are shipping a bit faster than that currently. You will receive a notice from eBay once the order has been processed. There should be an estimtated delivery date on the order details page.
Cheers,
-Mike

Yellow flags are raised and we shipped the item the same day.

Message #2 Received 2 days later

New message from: golden-age1
Hello -- we received the break lever covers today. Unfortunately, both covers are factory defective. Each is not fully hollowed, meaning, the rubber about half way through is solid and hasn't been machined out. The covers will only go on half way, then there is solid rubber on the inside. Please send us a pre-paid return shipping label and we'll get this item back to you asap for a full refund. We won't pay return shipping as this is no fault of ours, it is clearly a defective item. Thank you, Lori

Reply from: reed-sales
Sorry for the issue, could you please send a photo of the problem? That might save us both time and allow me to issue a refund without the need for you to send the item back. please start a return request through eBay and it will be processed in a timely manner.
-Mike

Message #3 received 2 minutes later

New message from: golden-age1
Impossible to get a camera shot inside of a 1/8 diameter hole. We stuck a screwdriver in there, too, and it stops half way. The rubber is not hollowed out. It's defective obviously from the factory. What would you like us to do at this point? We'd just like to return the item and get our refund. Lori

Reply from: reed-sales
Please start a return claim with eBay. Once the item is returned, a refund will be issued. Please include everything that came with the item, as I will need that to return the item to the manufacturer.
-Mike

5 minutes later, they opened a defective item return and posted this:
Item is defective. Both covers are not hollowed out half way through making it impossible to put on the levers. Contacted the seller about the problem and just wanted a simple return/refund and he wants us to jump through hoops with pictures inside of an 1/8 diameter hole, etc --absolutely ridiculous, we re talking about two pieces of .50cent rubber here, not a car purchase!! Please issue the refund and a pre-paid return shipping label as we re not paying to return a defective item. Seller should be ashamed of himself making this process so difficult for two pieces of defective rubber. Not happy at all!

We accepted the return and provided a return label

Red flags are clearly flying now and I check out their feedback sent to discover that this isn't their first rodeo.

Message #4 sent about 1 minute after the return was requested

New message from: golden-age1
Honestly, you should be sorry for the way you're handling this. Asking us to jump through hoops for a couple of defective 50cent pieces of rubber! We didn't purchase a car from you. Very, very disappointed so far. We did what you asked and filed a return with ebay -- there has been no pre-paid return shipping label sent to us and we're not paying to return a defective item. Very, very disappointed and aggravated at this point!!!!!!

Reply from: reed-sales
return label issued.

A week or so passes and I receive the following item in the mail. Upon being handed the package, I asked the delivery driver, "What happened to this envelope?" He looked at it and said, "This is how the post office received it, it is a federal offence to open or tamper with the mail!"

I spoke with eBay on the phone and was given a link to upload evidence and to report the buyer for not returning the item in the same condition as it was sent. 

I was also told to allow the return to time out and after the buyer was refunded to contact eBay to have a credit issued to my account.

We shall see, the case times out tonight at midnight...

[donsdetour]

good luck.

[reed-sales]

On cue, the negative has arrived...

  "Horrible Customer Service. WORST SELLER & EXPERIENCE Ever at Ebay. Buy Elsewhere"

[donsdetour]

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@reed-sales wrote:

On cue, the negative has arrived...

  "Horrible Customer Service. WORST SELLER & EXPERIENCE Ever at Ebay. Buy Elsewhere"

---

The direct off of eBay should get the content, or maybe the whole thing removed.

[reed-sales]

I thought exactly the same thing and I have reported the use of, "eBay" and "elsewhere", as a direct violation of eBay policy via chat.   It has been escalated to feedback review.  Removal requests are handled via email in 24-48 hours.

Policy page here: https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies/membertomember-contact-policy?id=4262

Either of these two I think will get it removed:

• Feedback containing links or promotional language which encourages buyers to purchase outside of eBay
• Feedback that includes references to law enforcement investigations or eBay or PayPal investigations

[reed-sales]

Just to be clear, there was no returned product in the envelope I received!

The images show the size of the product that was to be returned in the unsealed envelope.

I can only assume it is still on the buyers bicycle or in the best case scenario it is on the floor in some post office.

[reed-sales]

Timely reply received from eBay:

Thank you for getting in touch with us about your feedback concern. I understand that you want a negative feedback left by the buyer "******-****" to be removed from your account.

I reviewed the transaction and since there is an open return claim for the item, we are unable to take action on the feedback. Please take note that we can review a feedback as long as there is no on-going claim for the transaction. I can see that you are currently disputing the buyer's return because there's an issue with the package that you received. Once the claim is closed, you can let us know and we'll review the feedback if it will qualify for removal under guidelines.

Not exactly what I wanted to hear, but fair and prompt.  I have a phone call planned for tomorrow anyway.

[3eyedfishcatcher]

Sounds like they are a bicycle repair shop using eBay sellers to get free parts. In the last 30 days 3 of the feedbacks they left for others indicate they  may have started a return possible to get partial refund or  a full refund and keep the parts.  I would not be surprised if the message all sellers about the birthday gift in order to try and get free shipping upgrades. I would google the buyers address I would not be surprised if a bike shop is associated with the address. Most of the sellers they have left feedback for sell bike parts so this does appear to be business related purchases and not a gift for a friend or relative.

[otow_18]

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@reed-sales wrote:

I spoke with eBay on the phone and was given a link to upload evidence and to report the buyer for not returning the item in the same condition as it was sent. 

I was also told to allow the return to time out and after the buyer was refunded to contact eBay to have a credit issued to my account.

We shall see, the case times out tonight at midnight...

---

Once again @reed-sales, eBay Customer Support has advised a seller to take the precise path the seller should not take. This mischief is not isolated: Unsuspecting sellers have been consoled over and over by CS, they leave the conversation feeling comforted and relieved, only to discover too late that they've been conned by the reps.

You still have a chance to refund now and avoid a case closed without seller resolution defect. Otherwise, after eBay forces a refund and you appeal,

1.  you won't get a credit,

2. your strike won't be stricken,

3. and the negative will remain, stuck.

[shhboom]

Did you ask them to put the covers in a cup of boiled water for a few minutes to try to open up  the clogged passage?

[reed-sales]

Customer has been refunded after I reported the issue on the return page.

eBay email received after refund was issued:

------------------------------------------------------

"We reviewed this case and decided to issue the buyer a full refund.

We understand that you received your item in a different condition than when you shipped it, but unfortunately we couldn't determine that this was caused by the buyer, or that this was something in the buyer's control.

A refund of US $17.00 was issued on Sep 7, 2020 to the buyer. The refund includes the purchase price plus original shipping.

The refund amount will be recovered from you by eBay."
------------------------------------------------------------------

So the score right now is

Customer 3; Kept Product, Refunded Money, Left Negative 

eBay 1; Fees

Me -5; Lost product, Lost Refund, Lost Postage, Received Negative, Lost hours of time over $4 profit.

+1 to me for going through the steps to help weed out dishonest buyers.

Me -4

I have requested the feedback be removed again, citing the use of eBay and suggesting people buy elsewhere.

Hoping for a rally tomorrow when I talk to phone support again.

[reed-sales]

Quick update, 36 hours and eBay has not replied to my feedback removal request yet, but I did get the following message from my buyer.

----------------------------

Golden-Age1:

"You should truly be ashamed of yourself. It's quite obvious you have some emotional issues, no friends, unliked, things like that ...the defective item was shipped back to you in an amazon envelope -- the return shipping receipt you provided was too big for the tiny envelope that you shipped the defective item in, so we had no choice but to ship in the amazon envelope as that is all we had -- we don't send items back or sell items so have no envelopes on hand like you. And, FYI, you lied about the ebay agent you spoke with saying "we've dont that before" -- unlike you, we have a moral compass, and are ethical ...and, moreover, even a thief wouldn't bother for a .25 cent piece of rubber/$17 purchase to deal with you or your **bleep** and insanity! You act like you sold a $50,000 diamond and a buyer cheated you by not returning it ....the defective grips were in the package. You are either a stone cold liar and POS, or the item fell out of the package somehow. Either way, negative energy and karma will come your way for being such an evil, rotten person. People like you should stay under their rocks!"

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My reply to this was, "..." with the above images attached.  

Everything I have said to this buyer is listed above in this thread.  we have had no communication outside of eBay's message system.  The treatment I am receiving is above and beyond what you might expect from a common scammer and borders on harassment it seems.

Clearly they are not used to folks standing up to their bogus claims!

[reed-sales]

Following up...

I just got off the phone with eBay and the rep told me that;

1) They are going to issue a full refund to my paypal account for the purchase amount + shipping.

2) They are going to remove the defect from my account.

3) They are going to remove the negative feedback.

This phone call lasted less than 5 minutes.  Too bad they couldn't just take care of it the first time I called, but it's their website, and their rules.  As long as you go along with these rules, things tend to work out in the end.

I will post back here once again when this has all happened.

The buyer got to use a scam to keep the item, they got their money back and their account is still active so they can do it again, but at least eBay is making me whole again!

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@reed-sales wrote:

The buyer got to use a scam to keep the item, they got their money back and their account is still active so they can do it again, but at least eBay is making me whole again!

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And herein lies the problem: The seller gets a refund, the scammer buyer gets away.

If a seller can get permanently banned because someone they don't even know uses the same IP/wifi point in their apartment building to scam someone, why can't a buyer be permabanned? Not just by IP, but by name, financial info, address, etc...like Amazon does. Ebay, you want to be like Amazon, right? How 'bout it?

[reed-sales]

Long process, but it's getting closer.  Today I spoke with eBay (5th call) about my promised refund and was told that the automatic payout system for refunds has hit a snag and that they would escalate the refund to the manual refund department...really?!

This is a lot of leg work for $17.

Current score board:

Customer 2; Kept Product, Refunded Money, Left Negative (removed)

eBay 1; Fees

Me -1; Still not refunded, (defect was removed & feedback was removed)

USPS 2; they got paid twice

So the best I can hope for is a big fat 0 with the buyer & USPS winning and eBay in 2nd place!