6x9 kraft bubble mailer shipped as First-class Large envelope?

[sdjiricek]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about this topic on the boards as well as at the post office.  The item I'm shipping is a small bag of nuts and bolts.  I've been shipping them in 8 X 10 kraft bubble mailers with no problem (using extra bubble wrap to make it uniformly flat at about .5 inches) which comes in at 3 ounces.  This allows me to ship "First-Class Large Envelope".   My confusion comes in as to wether or not I could ship them in 6x9 kraft bubble mailer with actual outside dimensions of 6 1/2 by 9 1/2.  Since one side of the bubble mailer is more than 6 1/8 inches long, it seems to me, that the USPS definition allows me to do this.  I would love to use the kiosk to print postage and not have to deal with the counter staff telling me it has to ship $3.00 parcel post.  the USPS definition of "First-Class Large Envelope" is.  

Have ONE dimension that is greater than 6-1/8 inches high OR 11-½ inches long OR ¼ inch thick. Be no more than 12 inches high x 15 inches long x ¾ inch thick.

To me the word OR says that as long as ONE of the dimensions is greater that  6-1/8 inches then it can qualify as a "First-Class Large Envelope".  If the word AND was used in the defenition then there would be a minimum lenght and width together that defined the parameters.  The parameter might read like this "Have TWO dimensions that are greater than 6-1/8 inches high AND 11-½ inches long"

[partial*eclipse]

The piece cannot be mailed as a letter if ANY of the dimensions exceeds the limit for a letter.   That includes not only the 6 1/8 side but also the 1/4 inch thickness limit.

[duchess-at-speakeasy]

No, a 6x9 envelope of any construction is too small to be a flat aka large envelope. A "large envelope" aka flat must be at least 6-1/8 inches WIDE (short dimension) OR at least 11.5 inches LONG (long dimension).  Either one or the other, not necessarily both. For example, a 7 x 10 inch envelope would qualify because 7 inches is greater than 6-1/8 inches.  So would an envelope measuring 8.5 x 11 inches -- because the WIDTH exceeds 6-1/8 inches.  The maximum size of a flat is 12 x 15 inches. Additional requirements for a flat are that it be flexible, not rigid, and with a uniform thickness up to 3.4 inch.  Not lumpy or containing rigid items.  Maximum weight of 13 oz. Think of a flat as a "floppy envelope" containing a sheaf of paper or perhaps a thin catalog.  It can be rolled, folded, creased and bent. This chart (at the end of Notice 123, illustrates and specifies the characteristics of letters, flats and parcels: https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm#_c227 A 6x9 rigid envelope would be a non-machinable letter as long as it is NOT LUMPY, no more than 1/4 inch thick and weighs a maximum of 3.5 oz.  If it exceeds 3.5 oz. or 1/4 inch thickness,  it would be a parcel aka package. ~~C~~

[duchess-at-speakeasy]

No, a 6x9 envelope of any construction is too small to be a flat aka large envelope. HOwever, an envelope that is actually 6.5 inches wide would qualify as a flat aka large envelope as long as it is NOT RIGID.  If there's any rigid item inside the envelope -- cardboard, metal, plastic, etc. -- it is a PARCEL, not a large envelope aka flat. A "large envelope" aka flat must be at least 6-1/8 inches WIDE (short dimension) OR at least 11.5 inches LONG (long dimension).  Either one or the other, not necessarily both. For example, a 7 x 10 inch envelope would qualify because 7 inches is greater than 6-1/8 inches.  So would an envelope measuring 8.5 x 11 inches -- because the WIDTH exceeds 6-1/8 inches.  The maximum size of a flat is 12 x 15 inches. Additional requirements for a flat are that it be flexible, not rigid, and with a uniform thickness up to 3/4 inch.  Not lumpy or containing rigid items.  Maximum weight of 13 oz. Think of a flat as a "floppy envelope" containing a sheaf of paper or perhaps a thin catalog.  It can be rolled, folded, creased and bent. This chart (at the end of Notice 123, illustrates and specifies the characteristics of letters, flats and parcels: https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm#_c227 A 6x9 rigid envelope would be a non-machinable letter as long as it is NOT LUMPY, no more than 1/4 inch thick and weighs a maximum of 3.5 oz.  If it exceeds 3.5 oz. or 1/4 inch thickness,  it would be a parcel aka package. ~~C~~

[partial*eclipse]

The chart that you linked to is just a summary.  The DMM says:

...
2.0 Physical Standards for Flats 2.1 General Definition of Flat-Size Mail

Flat-size mail is:

1. More than 11-1/2 inches long, or more than 6-1/8 inches high, or more than 1/4 inch thick, except as allowed for EDDM-Retail flats under 140. For general retail mailability, all pieces 1/4 inch thick or less must be a minimum of 5 inches long and 3-1/2 inches high and 0.007 inch thick.

So if a piece exceeds ANY of those dimensions (which happn to be the minimum dimensions for a letter) then it is a flat, unless it fails to meet the criteria for fleixbility and even thickness.   If it doesn't meet all of those criteria, then it's a package/parcel.  OP specifically mentioned that he's shipping a small item; if it does not cause the piece to be rigid or lumpy, then it's a flat.

https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/101.htm#ep1002686

[sdjiricek]

See your answer is confusing me as 6-1/2 inches is larger than 6-1/8 inches so one dimension is larger than the minimun requirement.  it's not a 6x9 manilla envelope it's a 6x9 Bubble mailer which has actual dimensions of 6-1/2 x 9-1/2 inches.  it's also .5 or 1/2 inches thick.  The word OR in the description shows that the dimensions are mutaully exclusive of each other instead of inclusive so it's one OR the other but does not have to be both.  Does that make sense?

[sdjiricek]

you see it's the "OR" portion that is confusing.  That shows one dimension is exclusive of the other.  If the minimum for a "First-Class Large Envelope" is 11-1/2 x 6-1/8 then the statement would read "More than 11-1/2 inches long, AND more than 6-1/8 inches high".  As one dimension is actually 6-1/2 inches high, which is greater than 6-1/8 inches, it would fall into the First-Class Large Envelope category instead of the Letter category.  It's even thickness, not lumpy, and flexible so it's not a Parcel and at 6-1/2 inches in one dimension it doesn't qualify as a letter.

[sdjiricek]

you are correct, At actual size of 6-1/2 x 9-1/2 and 1/2 inches thick it exceeds the dimensions of a "First-Class letter".  The next category up is "First-Class large envelope" with a Maximum of 12 x 15x 3/4.  It's flat and flexible with no lumps either so to me it means that it would qualify as a "First-Class large envelope".  I suppose the title of 6 X 9 is a little confusing as the the bubble mailer is actually a little larger that a 6 x 9 manilla envelope.  The word OR, in the statement of parameters, shows that it should be bumped from letter to a Large envelope.

[partial*eclipse]

6x9 doesn't matter if it's over 1/4 inch thick. To be bumped up from "letter" to "flat," it only has to exceed one of those 3 dimensions.  Or be over 3.5 ounces.  Just be sure that it's not rigid or lumpy, per USPS definitions.