eBay seller protection is a joke

[pro_carbine]

I've been buying and selling on eBay for 19 years. 100% feedback, lots of small and some larger sales. It seems that I have had more problems with buyers in the past 4 years than the previous 15. Today I got burned by eBay's money back guarantee and lost $50 for the cost of shipping and now the unrefundable paypal fees. All because a buyer () decided he would lie about an item being not functional and return it, of course, 6 hours before the 14 day ebay money back guarantee expired. Even when I asked eBay to step in when the buyer never communicated with me or replied back, the case was automatically decided in the buyer's favor. I tried to work with  eBay today to not refund the buyer the cost of shipping ($50), but of course, they can't, because it was claimed to be defective and their money-back guarantee. 

Ebay's solution? Off a return policy. I'm not a store, I don't have time to rent items to buyers and let them decide to return beat, banged up and destroyed items. I am selling stuff to never see it again. I am not a retailer - just a hobbyist with several hobbies through the years that have a lot of gear and equipment. 

It is more than evident after several exchanges that the only thing eBay cares about, and the only thing its reps care about, are keeping buyers happy, ALL BUYERS. The good ones, the scammers, the ones suffering buyer's remorse and the downright evil buyers... All.. Must... Be... Happy... The ones left to pay the bill? The sellers. The larger sellers that don't notice, to the smaller sellers trying to simply get rid of unused stuff. I am better off going to facebook market place, craigslist, obscure forums and offering items at a firesale price or simply throwing things away, than losing money with ebay or fretting over getting ripped off. Ebay has lost touch with the crowd that made it great. I think I'm close to being done on eBay. The only way to make it better is for people to simply stop using this cesspool of a market place and run. 

[mr_lincoln]

@pro_carbine   Last year eBay implemented Free Returns ... that would be 30 day Free returns, the 14 days you mentioned is not really supported by eBay any more because they allow 30 days regardless of what is on the listing (that is my understanding).

Anyway, in a case like yours if a Buyer returns an item after they busted it you could withhold up to 50% of the original price, none of the original shipping AND be protected against less then Positive Feedback.  it is eBay offer some protection for Sellers from the type of Buyers you describe.

eBay will often refund the Buyer the balance that you didn't ... so its better then nothing, or in your case what happened to you.

[kensgiftshop]

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@pro_carbine wrote:

 Even when I asked eBay to step in when the buyer never communicated with me or replied back, the case was automatically decided in the buyer's favor.

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When a buyer files an INAD, it's never a good idea for the seller to ask Ebay to step in.

Not only do you give a full refund, you also get a defect for not handling the case and you probably won't be getting your sellers fee's back.

If a buyer files an INAD, Ebay want's us to refund buyer and let them keep the item or accept the return and pay return shipping, then give a full refund.

[pro_carbine]

Isn't that what eBay is there for, to help the seller as well as the buyer? eBay's support is a joke. Now, with no phone support. They will gladly take seller fees and screw legit sellers to appease finicky buyers, but in the end, they offer no support for sellers. Sellers can't even leave negative feedback for buyers. There is no recourse for sellers other than to leave. fees go up, service declines. One shouldn't have to get ripped off for eBay only to explain that having a return policy of "no returns" only opens seller up to more risk than having a return policy. 

[picknparley]

And how many B&M stores will take anything back you've abused or broke (unless it's a mfg guarantee)? 

How many say - oh, sure we'll take this piece of junk back and here's your money? Or half your money?  

I repeat one of my earlier comments: Returns here is just another word for shoplifting.

[cashvaluerecovery2011]

Havent you heard? Blues here say assisted theft is industry standard lol.

[albany_sellers]

Well that's sure strange, yesterday eBay told me that this is rare and almost never happens. Imagine that.

They are screwing me over currently too. Buyer purchased a broken handheld radio being sold specifically as non working, listed in the "For parts or not working" condition category, described in the title, condition description and item description as being non working, yet according to eBay, it's an INAD because "we don't know if the buyer is wrong" right after the rep telling me that it's described accurately.

I was lied to by the phone reps multiple times about getting a call back yesterday that never happened, I was told that it would be decided in my favor and that I should ignore the return request, and then it changed to "we can't do anything, it's impossible" and "that's the risk you take selling on eBay"

I've been ignored, told incorrect policy by reps who don't even know policy and have been basically told that I am not valued as a seller and that they care more for bad buyers and scammers than they do about the sellers who put all the money in their pockets.

If anything has become clear, there is absolutely nothing any one of us can do to protect ourselves. eBay will not have our backs, even when it's very clear and obvious that policy is on our side. I don't blame you one bit for wanting to cut ties with eBay, I am very seriously considering taking down about 700 listings myself over how we are treated.

eBay does not seem to care one little bit about the sellers, we are nothing but seller fees to them who they kick under the bus after the squeeze us dry.

[pro_carbine]

Agreed. I am better off donating or throwing away items. I at least won't loose money that way. I've switched to direct sales through facebook market place, craigslist and online forums for my hobby sales. I have had no issues doing that, but have had multiple issues dealing with the cesspool of buyers that ebay attracts and lets them rip off sellers. At least on forums, there are ways to shame and remove users that are dishonest. When eBay removed the ability for sellers to leave feedback for buyers, it killed the system. I even got a nastygram from a mod for mentioning the user's name that abused the return policy. 

[picknparley]

It is amazing that we're in this time where we don't dare name a proven crook.  We don't dare hurt their feelings. 

What a crock.

[18704d]

This board policy that states we can't 'shame' buyers by name, makes sense.

These boards help buyers and sellers who come here with problems.

If it turned into a 'report someone you don't like' .. buyers and sellers both would probably flood these boards with zillions of posts naming people.

jmtcw,

Lynn

[picknparley]

Yes, I do understand that, but scammers who continue to screw sellers over and over should be listed.

As sellers we're expected to look at every buyer's FB to be sure they're a 'good' ebay player. The only tool we have is to look at the FB they left for others.  We're not supposed to cancel a sale because they have no FB.  

We have no safety net in a time when scammers have over run the site.  

I have no desire to worry about hurting a scammer's feelings. We have the right to know the threats facing us. 

[corvettestainless]

If you sell here, you are a store, you are to abide by the 'terms & conditions' that you agreed to when you listed your item(s) for sale.

How long do you think a website in 2020 dedicated to selling things would continue to sell things if the 'mother' of the website only protected the seller and buyers can just "eat it"? 

ps. unless you plan to just advertise for 'local pickup' through those other sites, if you ship, buyers still have protections that they can force their money back. 

[mam98031]

I still get surprised when some sellers get surprised at the current state of returns on Ebay.

First, having a no return policy hasn't done much for seller in years.  All sellers, not matter their return policy stated on the listings have to have honor a return policy that meets or exceeds the MBG.  No exceptions.

The ONLY thing a no return policy does for you is if you get a properly filed Buyer's Remorse return request, you can deny it.  Beyond that it does nothing for you except PREVENT you from taking advantage of some of the seller protections offered to a TRS [which you are of course] with a 30+ day return policy.

It is so important for sellers to stay current on changes that Ebay announces and especially getting really intimate with all the Seller Updates that are released a 2 or 3 times a year.  The fall seller update of 2018 significantly changed the face of the return process.  They call it Simplified Returns.  Before that the return system was hard but still seller could battle certain returns and win.  That is no longer true even if the buyer ships you back something other than you sent them or even an empty box.

The amount of evidence a seller has also doesn't matter.  The only thing allowing Ebay to step in and rule on an return request will get you is a defect on your account because they will rule for the buyer not matter what.

The only thing a seller can do now is make sure they are TRS w/ 30+ day return policy OR [not and] have a Free Return policy for those that aren't TRS.  This gives you some protection, not enough but better than not having these policies.

The most important one is the ability to give a partial refund, up to 50% under certain circumstances.  Absolutely not perfect, but better to only lose $25 on a $50 sale verses losing $50.

And in the meantime we must all let our voices be heard that there are serious and significant changes that need to me made to this process.  The current one is beyond useless for sellers.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/handle-return-request-seller?id=4115#how_...

https://static.ebayinc.com/assets/Uploads/Documents/2019-eBay-Open-Seller-Protections.pdf?fbclid=IwA...

[pro_carbine]

I can shame people on other sites and forums. They make people wear their big boy pants when they are called to the carpet. eBay would rather coddle buyers and screw sellers. I never said a buyer should be forced to eat it - but giving a seller no recourse is absolute **bleep**.

[pro_carbine]

eBay is trying to be amazon, and it isn't. I miss the old, pre-ebay store ebay.