buy requested a return

[pandazbr]

I shipped 2 boxes of books to a buyer (27 books), tracking numbers showed they were both delivered today. Buyer contacted me and said they did not receive all the books and now want to return. I asked them if there was damage to the boxes, because they claim that they only recieved 11 of the 27 books I sent, and I don't know how 16 books can just disappear. They claim 1 box only contained 1 paperback. The weight of the the packages was 12pounds and 13pounds...as stated on the USPS receipet. 

What are my options? I feel like I'm being scammed here. 

They submitted a "There's something wrong with the item your buyer's received, so they'd like to return it" 

They said, as part of their reasonsing, that  "no notification from shipper or usps on packages"  Which I don't understand, since there are shipping numbers, which I have supplied. 

[katzrul15]

@pandazbr

When a Buyer claims a SNAD, unfortunately, there is often little you can do except accept the return.

1)  Please BBL this buyer.

2)  Please report this Buyer for Return abuse from the Transaction view - there is a drop-down arrow and choose "Report buyer".

Once you have implemented 1 & 2 (and not before)

3) Reach out to e-Bay CS on social media and send them a private PM and let them know what has occurred.  You can do that from this link

(19) eBay for Business | Facebook

Let e-Bay CS know that you have copies of the USPS receipts and that Buyer is claiming something different.

4) Reach out to your Postmaster at USPS and indicate you need to file with them for mail theft/fraud.  Use the email(s) from your buyer to support why you need to file and let them know that want this to be investigated.

5)  Send your Buyer this email

Dear Buyer

We are so very sorry to hear that there is an issue with your order.  

We have alerted both e-Bay to the potential USPS theft and we have also formally filed with USPS, asking them to meet with the route driver to discuss this delivery and also open a case for USPS theft/mail fraud, as clearly someone has stolen the contents of box #2.  We have the shipping receipts from USPS showing 12# on (1) box and 13# on the (2nd) box. 

I have used your email communication to us via e-Bay as an affidavit that you certify the parcel(s) were tampered with and the contents stolen.  Please anticipate that USPS will be in touch with you shortly to discuss this matter formally as well.

Please review your ring camera(s) in the area as typically USPS will want same and we will be filing with your local police department as well, should USPS determine that when the parcels were left, they were indeed full and heavy.

Please email us pictures of both parcels, notating the tampering of the boxes.  USPS will need same as well.

Thank you for alerting us to the theft of the contents of your order.  USPS is typically extremely prompt in dealing with postal theft and fraud, as both are considered a Federal felony, regardless of the jurisdiction.

Sincerely

Your Amazing Seller, (who believes these were not stolen by the parcel driver, but willing to give a buyer the benefit of the doubt until all facts are known)

I would leave off the text in parenthesis, but send everything else.  

[fashunu4eeuh]

The reason your buyer noted that there were no carrier marks on the boxes was to share that there is no physical evidence of tampering or damage to the outer packaging that you might expect to see in rifled mail. If the carrier noted a problem with the shipments, there would be a note on the package(s).

I have found that it is best to first give the buyer the benefit of the doubt, and approach the matter as if you are dealing with a loss in transit, as opposed to assuming the buyer is a scammer. It is unfortunate they did not contact you before filing a case. Or did they reach out first, and then filed the Item Not As Described case after initial contact? What was said?

[ckimodog]

I noticed you don't have a no return policy...you do know about Ebay's money back guarantee? If this person filed a SNAD, you need to accept the return and provide a shipping label.  Also, No returns does not mean no refunds.  Another thing is since you don't accept returns, the buyer is not obligated to return the books, since you don't accept them.  This happens a lot with sellers who do not accept returns.  My opinion some of them know what they're doing, but most are pretty honest...hopefully.  Change your return policy.  That way you are protected. 

[linus.hux72fe]

"Another thing is since you don't accept returns, the buyer is not obligated to return the books, since you don't accept them. "

I dont think this is accurate or a correct interpretation of the policy. 

It is my understanding that a no return policy means no remorse returns, not that the buyer is not obligated to return the items in a SNAD case if the seller requests the product be returned and provides a return label.  

This is how the few returns have worked for me, a no returns seller. Ebay has always given me the option of approving a return of item prior to refund. 

Did something change that I missed that someone can refer a policy quote to me? Or is my basic understanding correct?

[ckimodog]

Yes,

@linus.hux72fe 

Ebay has a money back guarantee.  You'll see slapped across your listing page larger than your listings. A buyer does not have to have an excuse or a reason.  If the open a return and if the seller doesn't accept returns and it is posted on their page "seller does not accept returns",  the buyer is not obligated to return the item and they'll get back their money back as well. 

This is ebay's way to get all sellers to accept returns, because this is where a lot of the return scams occur.  If the seller provides free returns with the labels and the buyer doesn't send it back, the seller is not out both the cash and the item.  It's been like this I want to say since the beginning of the year, maybe longer. 

Have a great day! 

[divwido]

Hold up here for a second.  If the buyer says some/most of the item are missing-why are you advising someone to pay to have half the order returned?   It's more money for less items and may be more cost effective to refund them and say forget the books.

Return for a refund is not always the best plan, so don't say it is.   25 pounds of books is an easy $25 out of the sellers pocket and may not be worth it.

And I vote for the first answer-times ten.  I wish feedback was honest and you could tag these people to know who is truthful and who is a scamming.

[roslak_42]

Hi dear

i think its scammed .Don't issued refund without ask ebay team .they will be provided nice solution. 

[linus.hux72fe]

Yes, I know Ebay has a money back guarantee.  But the question I am raising is your point that 

"the buyer is not obligated to return the item and they'll get back their money back as well."

I dont know/believe  that that is an accurate statement in the case of a buyer opening a SNAD case. I think the seller has the CHOICE of requesting a return of the merchandise and refunding upon receiving the merchandise. 

That is not to dispute the buyer getting his money back through the money back guarantee which is a separate issue being conflated with return of merchandise. 

I just think the statement that buyers dont have to return purchases in a SNAD case if the seller has a no return policy is incorrect. 

Whether this seller should ask for a return of merchandise is not the question. That's his/her personal choice.  That is not to say that choice circumvents/impacts the money back guarantee. 

[ckimodog]

lol

[asset_liquidators]

No, nothing changed and you are correct. "No returns" is for remorse only as you stated. Stating no returns does NOT mean a buyer gets to keep an item and get a refund. An item can always be returned if it is not as described. Stating otherwise is just blatantly false information.

[linus.hux72fe]

Thank you for the confirmation.

I was sure the statements were incorrect but thought well its possible that I missed something new.

[kensgiftshop]

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@roslak_42 wrote:

Hi dear

i think its scammed .Don't issued refund without ask ebay team .they will be provided nice solution. 

---

Their solution would be to refund the buyer from the sellers account, let the buyer keep the books and give the seller a defect.

[albertabrightalberta]

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@ckimodog wrote:

Yes,

@linus.hux72fe 

Ebay has a money back guarantee.  You'll see slapped across your listing page larger than your listings. A buyer does not have to have an excuse or a reason.  If the open a return and if the seller doesn't accept returns and it is posted on their page "seller does not accept returns",  the buyer is not obligated to return the item and they'll get back their money back as well. 

This is ebay's way to get all sellers to accept returns, because this is where a lot of the return scams occur.  If the seller provides free returns with the labels and the buyer doesn't send it back, the seller is not out both the cash and the item.  It's been like this I want to say since the beginning of the year, maybe longer. 

Have a great day! 

---

@ckimodog 

You're misunderstanding the policy. You're confusing remorse return requests with NAD return requests. 

Remorse request: A seller CAN have a no return policy and is not obligated to accept a buyer request to return an item if the seller doesn't want to do so. And in such a case, the buyer does NOT get the refund plus get to keep the item free of charge. Buyer keeps item and can dispose, donate or resell. 

Not as described (whether true or not): There are 2 scenarios that can take place when the seller has a "no return" policy. 

• Buyer files NAD. Seller can pay for return shipping, issue shipping label and insist that buyer return item in order to get refund. In this case, if the buyer doesn't return the item within the timeframe, the case closes in the seller's favor. 
• Buyer files NAD. Seller insists item is described accurately and holds fast to "no return" policy and refuses to accept return. Buyer escalates to ebay and ebay assumes since the seller insisted on not accepting the return that the seller doesn't want it back and as such, issues refund to buyer and allows buyer to keep item. In this case, seller gets dinged for making ebay resolve rather than doing it himself.
• (A third option the seller can choose is to issue a full refund without requiring the buyer to return the item. This choice is used if return of NAD item would be throwing good money after bad.)

Some buyers know that lying about condition is the only way to get a refund and not have to pay for return shipping. But still, sellers have to accept the return or issue a refund in order to avoid the account ding they'll get if they fight it.

@ckimodog I disagree that "this is ebay's way to get all sellers to accept returns, because this is where a lot of the return scams occur." 

Rather, the reason ebay forces sellers to take NAD returns is because ebay isn't able to assess which side is telling the truth in a NAD case. 

Even sellers who accept returns have to deal with NAD cases if those return policies require buyers to pay return shipping. So instead, buyer lies to avoid paying to return.

[ckimodog]

@albertabrightalberta 

I've seen so many different posts here on these boards concerning, sometimes it's difficult to decipher and can be confusing.  Certainly not trying to misinform people here, just posting what I have read in the past.  The money back guarantee trumps no returns.  And you're right, even those who offer free returns can be scammed.  Read this many times.  Something perhaps Ebay needs to rectify.  Thank you, Alberta.   ☺