Why can a buyer open a second case?

[jason_incognito]

Opened INR. 

label was printed off eBay and tracking was provided prior to the item being received by the post office. 

Item shows delivered 2 days later. 3 days after delivery, buyer opens INR. Case was closed because there was tracking. As a bonus, USPS verified that GPS showed it was properly delivered to buyer.

So now it has been proven that the buyer got the item prior to opening the INR. Buyer has said they don't have the item. Yes, it was likely stolen off their porch.

Buyer wants a return....... gets label....... sends back nothing. As in, a box with nothing inside. Says they got nothing, so they returned nothing.

eBay gives full refund. EVEN WITH MESSAGES FROM THE BUYER CLAIMING THEY GOT NOTHING SO THEY SENT BACK NOTHING. They flat out stated what they did.

Does eBay care? appealed. Lost the appeal. 

[auctionpet]

An item not received case wouldn't generate a return shipping label. They must have opened a not as described case following rejection of the not received, resulting in a return shipping label. They gamed the system.

[goodluckselling]

Did your buyer mention they got nothing so they sent back nothing in an eBay message?

Buyers should be able to open a SNAD request regardless if they opened an INR request before hand.  After they realize they did get delivery does not mean the item was also not as described?

Good Luck Selling!

[nodr-45]

How did the buyer word their message? Can “receiving nothing” be interpreted by CS that they received an empty box or was their message more transparent than that?

The situation seems very obvious to anyone reading your post, but I’m trying to figure out if it would be worth the time to try and fight it based on how CS would argue the buyer’s end. How much was the item?

[juststuffisell]

Wow... That is just beyond the point of ridiculous.

So, the buyers can just say "item not received" file a claim, lose, then do the SNAD and ship you back an empty box...despite the item showing delivered all without a police report for a stolen package. That is just plain stupid. I can understand and respect if they had law enforcement come out and what not and provide a police report for a stolen package...but just to do it on a buyers word. That is plain disrespectful to the seller given the rash of theft going on in eBay world.

I tell you, I feel for you. That is a really poor way to handle the situation. Unfortunately, it is eBay and you or I don't make the rules. We just have to suffer with the outcome. The going phrase here in these situations is; "If you can't afford to lose it, don't list it for sale on eBay (or any other online platform) because theft like this is going to happen"

You can mitigate that by insuring the package and requiring a signature. Most of my items go out this way, be darn the convenience to the buyer - for just this reason. Many of the shipments I send required the actual photo ID of the named buyer along with that signature....for just that reason. I will spend 30 bucks to protect 300 bucks 🙂

While I am sure some of my buyers have been salty about that, none have actually complained. Even if they did complain, I wouldn't care.

So... I suppose if you want to just be a really salty seller, you can contact the buyer and let them know you want a police report on the package being stolen by the end of the week or you'll be filing a police report on their behalf with them as the primary suspect of the theft come Monday morning kind of thing given you just got robbed.

With all the scams being run online, you just don't know who is who beyond the fact it is almost always the seller that winds up the final victim.

Cheers

[dtexley3]

@Anonymous 

Why should the seller be out the money?  The package was successfully delivered, on time.  The buyer is scamming the system.

[saratogaliquidators]

I know of a seller this happened to 3 times in a month and they quit selling on ebay

[alseyf-73]

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@jason_incognito wrote:

eBay gives full refund. EVEN WITH MESSAGES FROM THE BUYER CLAIMING THEY GOT NOTHING SO THEY SENT BACK NOTHING. They flat out stated what they did.

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Well they neither can't leave you NOTHING, as in no feedback. That's something, at least, now isn't that something?

[Anonymous]

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@jason_incognito wrote:

Opened INR. 

label was printed off eBay and tracking was provided prior to the item being received by the post office. 

Item shows delivered 2 days later. 3 days after delivery, buyer opens INR. Case was closed because there was tracking. As a bonus, USPS verified that GPS showed it was properly delivered to buyer.

So now it has been proven that the buyer got the item prior to opening the INR. Buyer has said they don't have the item. Yes, it was likely stolen off their porch.

Buyer wants a return....... gets label....... sends back nothing. As in, a box with nothing inside. Says they got nothing, so they returned nothing.

eBay gives full refund. EVEN WITH MESSAGES FROM THE BUYER CLAIMING THEY GOT NOTHING SO THEY SENT BACK NOTHING. They flat out stated what they did.

Does eBay care? appealed. Lost the appeal. 

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Hi @jason_incognito, is this return on another account of yours? Or was this possibly a return request through PayPal? I ask because I was not able to find a return request that matches the details you have provided here. If an empty box is returned, we take this concern very seriously and typically will investigate further for appropriate action. If you would like, I can email you directly and get more details from the account this situation is related to.

[mam98031]

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@jason_incognito wrote:

Opened INR. 

label was printed off eBay and tracking was provided prior to the item being received by the post office. 

Item shows delivered 2 days later. 3 days after delivery, buyer opens INR. Case was closed because there was tracking. As a bonus, USPS verified that GPS showed it was properly delivered to buyer.

So now it has been proven that the buyer got the item prior to opening the INR. Buyer has said they don't have the item. Yes, it was likely stolen off their porch.

Buyer wants a return....... gets label....... sends back nothing. As in, a box with nothing inside. Says they got nothing, so they returned nothing.

eBay gives full refund. EVEN WITH MESSAGES FROM THE BUYER CLAIMING THEY GOT NOTHING SO THEY SENT BACK NOTHING. They flat out stated what they did.

Does eBay care? appealed. Lost the appeal. 

---

@Anonymous 

Dang this is one clever buyer.  They know how to use the system.

Now let me make sure I have this correct.

Buyer files an INR, tracking shows the item was received at the proper address so the case gets closed in the seller's favor.

Your buyer still claims they didn't get the package and that of course sometimes happens.  But your buyer still insisted that you take care of things and refund them.

Then your buyer figures out they can't force you to do this and that the INR is closed.  Ebay does allow buyers that filed an INR to then open a SNAD so as to insure that if a buyer gets a damaged package, item not as described or other issue, can return for refund.  

Your buyer knew they didn't have anything to literally return for refund, but filed the SNAD anyway.  That is your second claim [not another INR].  Your buyer knowingly defrauded the system and USPS for that matter [if you used USPS].  As you know the SNAD process made you pay for the return shipping.  The buyer used that to send you back an empty box.  Knowing that Ebay would still make you FULLY refund them for their initial purchase.

Did I get this right?

OMG, this is a mess.  Hopefully Trinton can work through this for you and help you with a resolution to the matter.  In the meantime, if I have this right, make sure you file a report on your buyer.

[my-slots]

I burned my Nike

[kitschy*loot]

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@juststuffisell wrote:
Wow... That is just beyond the point of ridiculous.

So, the buyers can just say "item not received" file a claim, lose, then do the SNAD and ship you back an empty box...despite the item showing delivered all without a police report for a stolen package. That is just plain stupid. I can understand and respect if they had law enforcement come out and what not and provide a police report for a stolen package...but just to do it on a buyers word. That is plain disrespectful to the seller given the rash of theft going on in eBay world.

I tell you, I feel for you. That is a really poor way to handle the situation. Unfortunately, it is eBay and you or I don't make the rules. We just have to suffer with the outcome. The going phrase here in these situations is; "If you can't afford to lose it, don't list it for sale on eBay (or any other online platform) because theft like this is going to happen"

You can mitigate that by insuring the package and requiring a signature. Most of my items go out this way, be darn the convenience to the buyer - for just this reason. Many of the shipments I send required the actual photo ID of the named buyer along with that signature....for just that reason. I will spend 30 bucks to protect 300 bucks 🙂

While I am sure some of my buyers have been salty about that, none have actually complained. Even if they did complain, I wouldn't care.

So... I suppose if you want to just be a really salty seller, you can contact the buyer and let them know you want a police report on the package being stolen by the end of the week or you'll be filing a police report on their behalf with them as the primary suspect of the theft come Monday morning kind of thing given you just got robbed.

With all the scams being run online, you just don't know who is who beyond the fact it is almost always the seller that winds up the final victim.

Cheers

---

While I do believe that no seller should be on the hook for packages that say delivered, I want to say that GPS is not correct all the time due to human error.

I ordered my mother a set of umbrellas from Totes for Christmas. I got tracking information that said they were delivered. I went to get the package right away and there was nothing there. I called FedEX and was told they had GPS proof that my package had been delivered to my address.

The driver reluctantly admitted that he'd scanned a bunch of packages as delivered in front of my house, and might have gotten mine mixed back in with ones he was delivering next door. Thanks to an honest neighbor my mother got her umbrellas.

Drivers and Carriers scan packages all the time in places they shouldn't and it throws off the GPS, which can leave you looking like a scammer.

On the other subjects, if a buyer openly admits they sent back nothing, of course they shouldn't get a refund, but INR cases can certainly turn into not as described cases if the buyer ever gets their hands on the item and it isn't as described. 

[alseyf-73]

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@my-slots wrote:

I burned my Nike

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Footwear or top?

[starofradiance]

Because delivery services suck?  Serious only UPS and FedEx get it right at my place.  USPS, DHL, etc. CONSTANTLY mistakenly delivered to my neighbors.  The problem is that across the street, where they usually botch deliver as it is one digit "5" instead of "6" from mine, there are over 150 units.  My daughter works from home and is literally there all day from 8:30 to 6 Monday through Friday with the door open.  We repeatedly get claims of deliver when she is sitting less than ten feet from the open door.  I am now in dispute with a seller whose carrier says "delivered" even though my daughter was there and it was most certainly not delivered.  eBay decided for the seller and won't even allow an appeal.  Now dealing with PayPal, and if that does not bring justice my credit card.  eBay is great when things go smoothly, but when there are issues their customer service sucks for buyers and sellers both.  I have NEVER had this happen with the other big site.