eBay

gurlcat · ‎03-28-2023

Lots of people have been noticing goofy stuff going on with their promoted ad rates and suggested ad rates, and today I found THIS when I went to promote an item that wasn't promoted (using the feature in Seller Hub, Active Listings, not by opening the item for revision). Normally the popup just asks what ad rate I want to set, and it shows the suggested ad rate. But now it's pre-set to this "Dynamic" thing, so you have to change it to Fixed in order to set your own rate. Now I ASSUME 'Dynamic' is just a flashier rebranding of 'Automated' (which already existed) but I don't know if it's exactly the same thing.

Oh and of course Dynamic is "recommended." Let me guess, the suggested ad rate always goes UP, never down, huh? How conveeeenient. 🤣

gurlcat · ‎04-05-2023

Ask yourself this: if Automated and Dynamic are exactly the same thing, then why do both still exist? If it were merely a name change, why is Automated still a separate option available to use?

But more importantly ask yourself THIS: If the suggested ad rate is really based on system-wide data and ONLY that data (with no part of the algorithm having anything to do with your item's individual history, as far as number of days listed, number of views, etc.), then why do you never see the SAR go DOWN, why does it always increase? Does that sound like "fluctuation" to you?

The only time you see the SAR that is truly based on all listings in a category is when you first create the listing for an item in that category, and I should add, a brand-new from-scratch listing, not a 'sell similar' one from some other listing you already had posted (or sold). If you think there's anything natural about an item's SAR shooting up from (say) 5% the day you listed it, to 12% only a week or so later, sorry but that's naive. Now if you want to let a bot shoot your ad rates up like that for the "convenience" of not having to mess with it or even look at it ...... hey I'm not naysaying that, just saying I sure couldn't afford to give up that much of my profit. And it wouldn't be worth it to have the item over-promoted (way above the legit SAR) ....whatever "over-promoted" would even look like. I mean, we're all still assuming that a higher ad rate really makes a listing get "more" promotion. But I don't think we even know what that means anymore. Used to mean higher up in search results, but I have not observed that in careful experiments I've done recently.

Isn't it convenient how the promotion algorithms are "too complex" for clarity or predictability of any kind?

valueaddedresource · ‎04-05-2023

@simply-the-best-for-you wrote:
@valueaddedresource wrote:
@simply-the-best-for-you wrote:
I'm wondering the same thing as @zamo-zuan , how is this any different than the former Automated PL? It sounds exactly the same to me & I've been using the Automated for a long time now.   brian_burke@ebay

Also, I just set up a new "Dynamic" campaign & everything is the same as with the former "Automated". I saw absolutely no difference! The Automated changed once a day too. Even the verbiage on the screen says it changes once a day, not "in real time" (or alternatively in real time once a day lol). I don't get what the difference is or why there isn't any clarity on what appears to just be a re-branding of what's been in effect for at least a year now. @valueaddedresource Is there ANYTHING different between Dynamic & Automated?

Not sure why all the sarcasm & naysayers either. IF you use PL's, the Automated/Dynamic IS super convenient! That's why I've been using it. It works great!
@simply-the-best-for-you I'm with you on this one. I don't see anything obvious that is different, so my inclination is to say it's a change of name only, but it sure would be nice if we could get *someone* at eBay to just directly say that.

That's the reason I added the quotes from the podcast today - I thought maybe finally we had found a difference, but that appears not to be the case so....I'm stumped.
@valueaddedresource

I appreciate you adding those quotes, as I haven't heard the podcast, but as soon as I read it, I knew that wasn't the case, there's no way they were changing it in what most of us consider "real time" - continuously at a frequent interval (every second or minute), there's just no way. Having an IT background, it was obvious to me that that wasn't the case b/c that massive level of updating is VERY resource-intensive & though there are some applications where it's necessary, this isn't one. The resource-usage would far outstrip any benefit. Frankly there wouldn't be much benefit either, the changes from second to second or minute to minute, would not be significant, typically.

ITA though it would be REALLY helpful if someone at Ebay confirmed or denied that this is simply a name change & nothing else!

@simply-the-best-for-you Yeah I definitely thought truly "in real time" was very unlikely for all the reasons you mentioned but...when two eBay employees say it multiple times, especially when no one else at eBay is giving any definitive answers.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's sad that eBay doesn't seem to get the lack of clear, direct answers on simple stuff like this hurts them all around.

Those who were already skeptical or had a negative opinion about PL have had their opinions confirmed because it seems like there could be a "gotcha" in here somewhere.

Those who have had a positive experience with this particular function of PL may become wary of it or less likely to recommend it/share their positive experience with others because now they aren't sure if it's actually the same thing or not.

It should be pretty easy for them to confirm or deny if it is simply just a name change and I have no idea why they wouldn't want to.

valueaddedresource · ‎04-05-2023

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:
@valueaddedresource I think the difference may be that there are three types of PLS campaigns, and previously not all had this ability...now all three do.

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques it is only available for Simple and Automated campaigns, not for Bulk.

"For new campaigns, this update is now a selection when you’re creating a Simple or Automated campaign.

Note that this is not a feature available for bulk campaigns."

my-cottage-books-and-antiques · ‎04-05-2023

@valueaddedresource Thanks for checking that.

zamo-zuan · ‎04-05-2023

@gurlcat wrote:
Ask yourself this: if Automated and Dynamic are exactly the same thing, then why do both still exist? If it were merely a name change, why is Automated still a separate option available to use?

But more importantly ask yourself THIS: If the suggested ad rate is really based on system-wide data and ONLY that data (with no part of the algorithm having anything to do with your item's individual history, as far as number of days listed, number of views, etc.), then why do you never see the SAR go DOWN, why does it always increase? Does that sound like "fluctuation" to you?

The only time you see the SAR that is truly based on all listings in a category is when you first create the listing for an item in that category, and I should add, a brand-new from-scratch listing, not a 'sell similar' one from some other listing you already had posted (or sold). If you think there's anything natural about an item's SAR shooting up from (say) 5% the day you listed it, to 12% only a week or so later, sorry but that's naive. Now if you want to let a bot shoot your ad rates up like that for the "convenience" of not having to mess with it or even look at it ...... hey I'm not naysaying that, just saying I sure couldn't afford to give up that much of my profit. And it wouldn't be worth it to have the item over-promoted (way above the legit SAR) ....whatever "over-promoted" would even look like. I mean, we're all still assuming that a higher ad rate really makes a listing get "more" promotion. But I don't think we even know what that means anymore. Used to mean higher up in search results, but I have not observed that in careful experiments I've done recently.

Isn't it convenient how the promotion algorithms are "too complex" for clarity or predictability of any kind?

I've also tested investing more in PLS recently and observed the same thing in experiments, but that isn't different from past experiments for us. I'd mentioned on here quite a few times that it's more of a "switch" that turns on and off for us.

We discussed the dynamic rates yesterday here, but the problem is, it doesn't do anything in our category. When all the listings are either 7% or 11%, it's fairly useless, as I can GUARANTEE that nobody in this category is investing that much. The margins are far too tight. It's not possible, period.

But even if testing at 7%, it doesn't make a difference anyway. It's just a "switch" and it's only possible for the switch to be on or off - it's not possible for a switch to be "more on".

ambera215 · ‎04-17-2023

I believe you are right, but what's sad is that many sellers don't mind throwing money away, and helping eBay reach their profit goals at the sellers/buyers expense. If no one used the feature, surely they would take it away, and they would definitely not try to push it on us if we don't want it. They would "suggest" we pick an ad rate of 300% if they could. At this point they are just another greedy corporation, but I don't think this is the best way to compete with the amazonians.

ghost-star · ‎06-13-2023

Where is the page where I can place a cap on the dynamic ad rate? I see an image of it on the page you provided, but I can't find that option anywhere.

bestdeals4ebuyers · ‎06-21-2023

What is SAR and what is PLS??

westchestervillage · ‎09-01-2023

So if we do this, I won't be charged more than 2% no matter if I put 100% or 10000000% in the dynamic ad rate field?

Why then allow you to pick adjust dynamic ad rate if you have an ad rate cap set at 2% or whatever you like?

Honestly asking.

vintagecraze50 · ‎09-01-2023

It goes up if others are promoting higher and probably goes down, probably not, if other sellers are lowering their ad rates. Not for me. I guess they use some king of sophisticated calculation measure to see what other sellers selling the same types of items are using and an average that out in that category. I have no idea.

westchestervillage · ‎09-01-2023

Yea its strange to allow to check both the set ad rate cap and also the adjust dynamic ad rate since the ad rate cap is really the max you will be charged no matter if you put 1 million on the adjust ad rate.

Not at all complaining but I can see where this can lead to confusion to allow both to be filled out when the ad rate cap is the main thing.

I guess one can say 15% ad rate cap and put like 5% for adjust dynamic rate but then again, why not just put 100% if you have an ad rate cap anyhow. lol I might be understanding this all wrong though. I probably am. lol

my-cottage-books-and-antiques · ‎09-01-2023

Since 2% is the absolute minimum, ebay would expect that you would probably use fixed ad rate for that. However, it is YOUR choice. Some sellers run continuous campaigns, and so may run a dynamic campaign starting at 2% but gradually modifying that over time, so for them, 2% could make sense.

As to how the cap works, if you set the cap at, say, 9%, and suggested rates are 7% and 10%, your items at the suggested rate of 7% would be charged at 7%, since 7% is lower than the cap, and your items at 10% suggested rate would be charged at 9%, since the cap is lower than the suggested rate. Suggested rates can vary on a daily basis, so the cap makes sure you don't exceed 9%.

The "adjust dynamic ad rate" can be an adjustment up or down.

To keep it simple, let's say your cap is 9% and your suggested rate is 7%. You can use the adjustment to add, say, .5% to the suggested rate. If you do that, you will be charged 7.5%, rather than the suggested rate of 7%. You can also set it to reduce the suggested rate, so if you set it for -.5%, you would be charged 6.5% on a suggested rate of 7%.

Now, again with a cap of 9%, if you have two suggested rates, one at 8% and one at 9%, and you have the adjustment set at +.5%, you would be charged 8.5% for the suggested 8% rate, but only 9% for the suggested 9%, since the +.5% would not be added, as it would exceed the cap.

Hope this helps.

my-cottage-books-and-antiques · ‎09-01-2023

To add a bit to that:

Some sellers feel it is important to always be above the suggested rate (within their cap), so they might use the +.5% or +1%, whatever. Other sellers want to cap the rate, but also feel the suggested rates are too high (even though they are below the cap), so the "minus" adjustment gives them the flexibility to both cap (so they never exceed the max) AND to keep all their rates beneath the suggested rates.

It's all about providing more flexibility than the fixed rate provides. But many will just stick with say 2 or 3% fixed rate regardless of the suggested rates.

It all depends on the individual sellers. (and of course, many will simply not use PLS at all.