We had to start testing Promoted Listing Advanced... Now eBay wants us to pay for off site ad's??

[zamo-zuan]

Saw this pop up today when checking our campaigns:

Is eBay serious with this?! 

Part of the reason they gave for increasing fees and encouraging us to advertise was so they could invest in marketing... Now eBay wants us to pay for eBay's marketing??? Even though eBay will be getting the sale and FVF anyway...?

So we have to pay to even get traffic on eBay, and then must pay to bring traffic TO EBAY in order to get sales...?

The last paragraph was the most outrageous part:

"Once you've created an offsite ads campaign, your listings can only appear in Google Ads through that campaign. They won't be eligible to appear in Google Ads via your Promoted Listings Standard campaigns."

So our PLS investment will be shut down and we'll have to fully pay for our own off-site impressions?!?!

The amount of investment eBay is trying to suck from sellers is approaching the level of insanity. As I'd posted about in the past, first they take away impressions unless you pay in PLS. Then even our organic impressions drop unless we pay in PLS. Then they make the 2% requirement to get PLS impressions (which had been a "test" that eBay did to us since 2020) standard across the entire site. Then their changes are causing drastic reductions on impressions to a point where we have to start testing PLA... And now they're exploiting us more???

Why on earth should we be expected - or even encouraged - to pay to advertise EBAY on Google...? Especially when the PLA pay per-click rates are HIGHER than Googles! 

In other words, it seems eBay is now going to charge us MORE than Google does for clicks... Just to spend that ad money on advertising themselves on Google. Rather than the PLS payments being used to advertise us on Google as we were told it was designed for. And they will pocketing that extra "per click" money since their rates are higher than Googles...

This is insanity. Pay more, more, and more, just for less impressions and sales. EBay's GMV is falling, and the top sellers of our category are at a fraction of what they were a month ago, a quarter ago, and a year ago. Why is now the time they try to take MORE from us, without giving us anything more?

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

@ten_o_nine  My point since PLA launched---it has nothing to do with  sellers of single quantity listings of long tail items--- we should stick with PLS if we use anything. But can other sellers benefit from PLA? I think so, if they know what they are doing. I think many, probably most, of the regulars on this Board can safely ignore PLA because it is not designed for them. 

PLA is not a replacement for PLS, it is simply another tool which a seller can try if they decide it might help them. 

[valueaddedresource]

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:

@valueaddedresource  Whether ebay will continue to choose the rates is open to question---that may be part of a deal with Google....Google may not want to be flooded with ebay sellers sending in one cent click offers, for example.  The main thing to me is, as a seller you see these rates up front, right? so you can simply say, no that won't work for me and walk away. If you think the rates would work for your business, you can go ahead and start the campaign, right?

I've said this many times before: Pay Per Click CAN work, but it is far more complicated than PLS, and even if I had a business model that might benefit from it (and I don't), I'd either want to spend a lot of time studying how to make it work, or, if I had the funds, I'd hire someone who really knows PPC marketing.

And any ebay seller who has never used PPC before should proceed with caution. I suspect most of those who are using it on ebay have used it elsewhere before and so they already know what they are doing. Learning as you go could be pretty expensive.

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques  those are fair points but then to me it kind of begs the question, just who *is* this for and why even bother with it in the current beta format?

Any seller that fits within what most of us would envision as being a prime target for this is either

A.) not likely to sign up to be a guinea pig with so little control (you can't select the per click rate yourself, nor can you choose only certain items - if you opt in, it's for all "eligible items" which from what I can tell looks to be all fixed price but not auctions.)

and/or

B.) Likely to be a business of the size/scope to have their own direct website, in which case I have to agree with @zamo-zuan , any ad budget and in house or third party marketing efforts would be going to that site not eBay.

Honestly, I just don't understand what eBay thinks they are going to accomplish here - even if the general concept of a CPC offsite ad product doesn't sound too bad to you, it doesn't make much sense to me to run a test this way.

[luckythewinner]

 Why is now the time they try to take MORE from us, without giving us anything more?

I suspect it is because history has told them that sellers here will fall for it.

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

I agree that the target audience here is not entirely clear.   I do know there are some larger sellers with their own websites who nonetheless generate the lion's share of the their sales on ebay, and for them, this might be welcome. And I believe there are some larger sellers who---surprisingly--- still sell exclusively on ebay. 

I also agree that the test's lack of seller control over the rates is unappealing. However, if a seller wants to take this for a test drive, it does have the virtue of simplifying some of the complexity...just either agree to the ebay-set rates or not, rather than trying to figure out your own rates (especially if you have no experience with Pay Per Click.

Just to be clear, I'm not impressed with this as a test or as a tool, but , again, I'm not a candidate for Pay Per Click, period. This doesn't prevent me (or millions of sellers like me) from continuing to use PLS. So, looking at this strictly from my own business viewpoint, this is nothing I will use and nothing that will likely really impact me of others do use it. 

I am not surprised to see ebay doing something like this, for at least two reasons: 1. ebay has been pretty clear that it sees seller advertising as a driver of revenue growth, and I fully expect ebay will continue to try to find ways to supplement the ad revenue (I'm still waiting to see just what ebay had been talking about when they talked about "stores advertising"...but I have no doubt they'll try to milk us there, as well) 2. The adsteam seems to be the only team at ebay that is releasing new stuff at a pretty good pace. They clearly seem to be pretty near the top when it comes to ebay's priorities.

A recent report indicated etsy had pretty good revenue in Q2, but noted that if etsy had not increased fees and ad revenue, it would have been in negative territory. I don't know whether ebay will have a good Q2 report or not, but I'm pretty sure without ad revenue and fee increases, ebay would likely be looking at worse revenue numbers.

That's not a defense of ebay's current strategy, it's just reality. Do I want to see ebay put emphasis on growing overall GMV instead of  finding new ways to milk its declining herd? Yes, 1000 times yes. Do I expect to see it happen anytime soon? No. I expect to see ebay continue to do what it's been doing: milking its seller base via fees , ads, and ebay payments, proclaiming the virtues of its Verticals strategy, and counseling us all to wait while all these changes lead to more sales for all of us....a promise that ahs been ringing pretty hollow for quite a while now.

I'll just continue to try to make this work for me, and I'll continue to expect little or no real help from ebay. 

[nuclearomen]

it's all designed so ebay makes the most money, period. With that said, PLA's can work for seller if you have a ton of something and can afford to invest in PLA campaign (that, btw, if read that fine print if cancel that campaign early that can cost you double). In all truth, PLS isn't performing for crud lately so why even bother in PLA's that will just cost you with no real return the way ebay is right now. That's all IMO, and MO doesn't really matter. 

[flyingmvp]

It is a never ending cycle ebay created for themselves and us,

Milking more out of the sellers = sellers must raise prices = Ebay stops being competitive and buyers go elsewhere = sellers leave ebay because their buyers left = ebay now finds another way to charge the remaining sellers even more via new short sighted profit scheme.

More fees on top of fees, tax, shipping, PL, more PLA etc'...

Not to mention the constant changes upon changes and fiddling and experimenting on our live listing, damaging our livelihood.

The current caniblization of sellers is not working,

Q2 2022 report should be interesting.

Q3 would probably be the last with the current CEO in command,

Very disappointing.

[chapeau-noir]

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques   I do know there are some larger sellers with their own websites who nonetheless generate the lion's share of the their sales on ebay, and for them, this might be welcome. And I believe there are some larger sellers who---surprisingly--- still sell exclusively on ebay. 

Both groups are nuts.  I'm continually amazed at people who build a 'business' on eBay, including many employees and warehouses, and just stay here.  They must be touchingly trusting.

[valueaddedresource]

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@chapeau-noir wrote:

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques   I do know there are some larger sellers with their own websites who nonetheless generate the lion's share of the their sales on ebay, and for them, this might be welcome. And I believe there are some larger sellers who---surprisingly--- still sell exclusively on ebay. 

Both groups are nuts.  I'm continually amazed at people who build a 'business' on eBay, including many employees and warehouses, and just stay here.  They must be touchingly trusting.

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@chapeau-noir  @my-cottage-books-and-antiques  - my take on this one, mostly with a grain of salt but also with a little bit of relevant experience....I'd be willing to bet a not insignificant number of larger sellers who would fall into either of those groups are being offered subsidies and/or benefits of some kind in order to stay here. 😉

Not saying they aren't still maybe nuts for doing it, but the math they are using to determine whether that's a good business choice or not is likely not the same math the average seller might be using.

The very first ecommerce job I ever had back in 2007 was for a company that had a 1.8 million sku deep catalog - at one point they had a direct site and were selling on Amazon as well, then Amazon approached with a "platinum contract" offer that had significant enough upside to convince the CEO it was worth the tradeoff of the requirement to sell exclusively on Amazon.

Whether it's the smartest or best choice in the long run is a whole other can of worms, but in my experience money has a way of buying "trust"...or at least convincing people to ignore the little voice in the back of their head that might have some sage advice about putting eggs in baskets.

[kelekt]

@flyingmvp  yep....EXACTLY what you said:

"It is a never ending cycle ebay created for themselves and us,

Milking more out of the sellers = sellers must raise prices = Ebay stops being competitive and buyers go elsewhere = sellers leave ebay because their buyers left = ebay now finds another way to charge the remaining sellers even more via new short sighted profit scheme.

More fees on top of fees, tax, shipping, PL, more PLA etc'...

Not to mention the constant changes upon changes and fiddling and experimenting on our live listing, damaging our livelihood."

***

[gamersbaystore]

I agree with everything you stated, ebay's constant pursuit of more fees with less sales in return is not going to end well for sellers, and it will be the downfall of this platform as a whole. ebay's incessant greed is on full display here. 

ebay can't even deliver any real traffic with promoted listings standard. I have well over 1,000+ listings promoted right now between 4% and 6% on average, and I see very little traffic from it at all, and now they want more?

Add in outrageous fees and ever rising shipping costs and sellers are left with dwindling profits that are next to zero.

Meanwhile, ebay hands over to investors practically every dollar it brings in, while hardly spending a dime on marketing, leaving the platform with very little if any traffic at all.

ebay is a rinse and repeat of what happened to Sears department stores. Sears board handed over so much of the company's profits to investors they could no longer cover the minimum operating costs of running their stores, cut marketing to zero, and ultimately went out of business as a result.

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

@zamo-zuan  Re-reading your first post: 

"Once you've created an offsite ads campaign, your listings can only appear in Google Ads through that campaign. They won't be eligible to appear in Google Ads via your Promoted Listings Standard campaigns."

So our PLS investment will be shut down and we'll have to fully pay for our own off-site impressions?!?!

@zamo-zuan I don't think this interferes in any way with your ebay onsite PLS campaign. That would presumably continue as usual.

As I recall, your PLS campaign can be set to work offsite with Google ads. If you are set to do that, carry on. If you are set to do that AND you create a PLA offsite campaign, the PLA campaign will effectively replace your offsite PLS campaign for the duration of the PLA campaign.

Google ultimately decides what is shown and where, and I believe ebay would still be submitting your listings to Google Shopping (for free). So, if Google chooses not to feature your PLA item in a Google Ad on the Google Shopping page, I don't think that means your item won't show at all....it just won't show in the paid ad section. It MIGHT show in the regular section, which is true of every Google Shopping submission....it might show on the first page of GS or it might not...that's in Google's hands. 

If you are giving the PLA off site campaign any serious thought at all, I'd suggest asking ebay for some clarification about this.

[ittybitnot]

Now eBay wants us to pay for off site ad's??

@zamo-zuan   

Thank you for your post.  Actually, monetizing "off site ads" does not come as a surprise.  It is odd that they are going for a 'pay per click' model, however.  PLA (which is a PPC) is only for 'on site' advertisements.  

Be thankful that any off site ad program is still VOLUNTARY.  I fully expect a mandatory one in some form to come next.  Etsy already has one.  At the very least, eBay will increase the number of places the offsite ads will appear and increase the chances of getting that "click" ($$$$$$$).  

Interesting to note that these ads will appear "where Google shopping ads appear".   Nothing for Bing, etc. yet? 

Sellers in the US, (and I recall the UK as well) can submit their own listings to Google for FREE.   I use the program with my website listings since I have my own domain/URL.  There is an extra step an eBay seller must use when setting up the program since they don't particularly OWN, for example, the URL  with ebay.com that goes directly to the  product page. 

So in the meantime I suppose if eBay gets 1000 users to try this program even by mistake at an average of $300 a month, eBay can make some bank.  The offsite ads program are not designed to make more sales. They are designed to make more money for eBay.  The ads were there anyway.  Good SEO got you placement. 

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

@valueaddedresource  I agree --- ebay undoubtedly provides various "perks" for sellers who reach a certain size---although those perks might not be as significant as we imagine them to be. And do not underestimate the power of "better the devil you know, than the devil you don't"....any business that has grown to serious size on ebay has managed to navigate the pitfalls of a site filled with them...the grass is not necessarily greener elsewhere, one might just end up having to learn how to deal with a whole new bunch of pitfalls.  

I don't see this latest beta test as any huge deal. As a seller, either try it or don't try it. If ebay gets too few adopters because of the structure of the test, they'll likely change the structure (just as I think you pointed out, The Vault recently reduced the $750 card minimum to $500) Using the beta is still a choice, as is using PLS for external traffic as well.

I do see the latest beta test as more proof that ebay is going to continue doing exactly what they have said they are going to do: they will use seller advertising to drive revenue growth. I expect this will continue. (As I said, at some point, perhaps fairly soon, they'll be offering us a product to advertise our stores.) 

Do I like this approach? No. I would much rather see ---and I think most sellers would rather see----ebay working to increase overall GMV (and not just the "halo effect" of Verticals growth). But that isn't the direction they have been heading, and , so far, I see no reason to think it will change anytime soon.

I think this is a dangerously short sighted approach, especially given the increasing effectiveness of ebay's competition. Sellers have more opportunities than ever to sell elsewhere, and more of those sites are proving themselves to be real competition. 

But, for those of us who remain here, this is the current strategy and we can complain about it but , if we stay, we also need to adapt to it, as we have always needed to adapt to the changes here.

[zamo-zuan]

Honestly, we don't *want* to be a candidate for PLA, lol. But eBay has shifted far towards promotions this year, and not promoting simply doesn't give a sufficient amount of trafic anymore.

Thing is, even using Google ad's - or any pay per click ad type -, you need to pay a lot of attention to the statistics that are gathered, the trends of buyers, and do a lot of research to make sure it will work well and target your own products target audience. In this case, you're not even given the capability to do that, it's all in eBay's hands. Without such investment, you can throw hundreds of dollars at PPC and have it be all losses. 

For what we sell, I've shared a lot of this in the past, but often times items have < $5 margin. And we're speaking from the perspective of having the best straight from manufacturer prices in the industry. Which is one of the many ways we know that the PLS, and the PLA numbers, are not realistic. 

We're still testing PLA, I can say from preliminary testing, it certainly does not seem to be investing based on the keyword as Google does directly, as there's some sort of "minimum investment" required before you're offered impressions no matter what keyword you use. Even on rarer items, even on specific keywords, even on items with no other PLA or promoted competition. But I will give full results on this sometime in the future once testing is done.

It's just becoming painfully obvious and problematic that the piece of the pie eBay is taking is now the majority, and we're not even left with a full piece to get our fill. 

I also want to mention that history has shown these types of tests are, more often than not, to become the norm on eBay in the future. I had made a post in I believe 2020 about needing to invest 2% or more to get impressions, and there was many other sellers facing the same issue at the exact same time. EBay had directly stated this was a "test". You could go back to that thread and look at the graphs I had posted. And then look at the thread of people who had campaigns going before eBay recently updated their minimum to 2%. If they did NOT update their campaign to 2% and left it at 1%, their graphs look EXACTLY like ours did back then.

It might be something that become standard and widespread on eBay only this month, but it's something we had faced for nearly 2 years. People often dismiss it as it being alarmist, or something not happening to them or that doesn't have any effect on their store. But these things really happen, and in time, the pattern shows that most of these things do end up happening to everyone else in time. Ironically, I get more likes on the older threads nowadays than I did when I made them... People dismissed it then, but now that it's happening to them too, they can't dismiss it anymore.

[zamo-zuan]

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:

@zamo-zuan  Re-reading your first post: 

"Once you've created an offsite ads campaign, your listings can only appear in Google Ads through that campaign. They won't be eligible to appear in Google Ads via your Promoted Listings Standard campaigns."

So our PLS investment will be shut down and we'll have to fully pay for our own off-site impressions?!?!

@zamo-zuan I don't think this interferes in any way with your ebay onsite PLS campaign. That would presumably continue as usual.

As I recall, your PLS campaign can be set to work offsite with Google ads. If you are set to do that, carry on. If you are set to do that AND you create a PLA offsite campaign, the PLA campaign will effectively replace your offsite PLS campaign for the duration of the PLA campaign.

Google ultimately decides what is shown and where, and I believe ebay would still be submitting your listings to Google Shopping (for free). So, if Google chooses not to feature your PLA item in a Google Ad on the Google Shopping page, I don't think that means your item won't show at all....it just won't show in the paid ad section. It MIGHT show in the regular section, which is true of every Google Shopping submission....it might show on the first page of GS or it might not...that's in Google's hands. 

If you are giving the PLA off site campaign any serious thought at all, I'd suggest asking ebay for some clarification about this.

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Part of PLS investment is that you get the Google advertising as part of your investment. If you're deciding to invest in both PLS and this new beta, you're getting less for your money. Choosing this new ad beta, and cancelling your PLS investment, isn't really an option with how eBay works nowadays. PLS is a necessity - as mentioned in the past - even for ourselves to get organic impressions. This might not happen to you or everyone yet, but for some of us it's reality. 

We're certainly not giving this any thought, as if we're going to invest $300 off site we're going to do it ourselves. But if it's like any of their other offerings, it's only a matter of time until they push it and it becomes a necessity. And the simple fact that they're propositioning this reeks of desperation and is filled with red flags and warning signs. In the last 4 years, how often have you seen eBay cut their losses on a new feature that wasn't exactly accepted warmly?