Vero Program Is non compliant, complicit and request to see NOCI form and denied.

[rivingston41]

I received an email from vero that I was in violation of the vero policy. I sold some generic guitar parts without any logos, marking etc. The guitar necks are designed for generic use and specs for various guitar builders and hobbyist. The parts will fit fender parts. 

In the title of the listings there were not any reference to fender or any of their trademark names or words that stated "Style" etc. 

I requested that vero send me the notice of Claimed infringement(NOCI) and they refused to do so. They claim it is to protect the vero's legal details and that a subpoena would be required. This is a false statement by ebay. A notice of claimed infringement (NOCI) ,the details of the violation and any trademark violations would be public knowledge and described in the NOCI.

this claim by VERO is outright  false and an outright lie. If i was charged with a speeding infraction I would be given a ticket and it would state the exact details of the infraction.

Clearly EBAY IS complicit and refuse to disclose this NOCI form. Anyone sent notice by VERO has the right to see NOCI details. It is open domain knowledge and would list trademark violation etc.  VERO is non compliant, complicit, anti-trade practices and outright dangerous without any basis. 

[1tuna]

your description mentions that the parts will fit Fender

maybe that is what they are complaining about

[rivingston41]

the name "Fender" is not in the title or in the description. In the description i state it fits OEM manufacturers. This is an outright complicit non binding vero violation. I asked vero to send me the see the notice of Claimed infringement(NOCI) . It will state the exact claims and will state any trademark infractions. The NOCI must state the infraction and legal description detail and is open to the public.

Vero has declined and refused to send it to me. 

If i am charged with a speeding violation the officer will write up a ticket with the exact infraction of the stated law in that state as a document. 

Sellers have a right to see this NOCI document. It must state a violation and trademark #.  Failure to provide the NOCI by ebay demonstrates that this  vero policy is non binding, complicit, anti-trade practices. EBAY IS A DUBIOUS COMPANY WITH VERY POORLY DESIGNED VERO PROGRAM. 

Alleged violations thru vero program must be supported with a NOCI document with facts. 

EBAY, YOU MUST COMPLY. 

[1tuna]

a few of your completed auctions mention the word fender in the description.

[rivingston41]

not in the batch that was removed. Regardless, Sellers have the right to see the NOCI form and allegations. It must state the infractions and trademarks listed in the USA. It is public domain knowledge. EBAY must comply. Failure to do so by vero makes this non binding policy and must be rejected.  

[oneblindcat]

I don't understand. Why is this a problem? There are many listings here for aftermarket parts that  specify what they will fit, why is it a problem with guitars?

"Will fit 2001 Ford Taurus", etc.

[rivingston41]

Exactly. There are so many after market generic parts that will fit brand "A" "B", "C" by name. What this suggest is that the VERO PROGRAM IS POORLY THOUGHT OUT, DESIGNED AND NONE COMPLIANT, NON BINDING, ANTI-TRADE.

EBAY IS COMPLICIT AND POORLY MANAGED. 

[rivingston41]

Sellers have a right to see this NOCI document. It must state a violation and trademark # Violation. It is public domain knowledge and must be transparent disclosure.

 Failure to provide the NOCI by ebay demonstrates that this  vero policy is non binding, complicit, anti-trade practices. EBAY IS A DUBIOUS COMPANY WITH VERY POORLY DESIGNED VERO PROGRAM. 

Alleged violations thru vero program must be supported with a NOCI document with facts. 

EBAY, YOU MUST COMPLY. 

[luckythewinner]

---

@rivingston41 wrote:

Clearly EBAY IS complicit and refuse to disclose this NOCI form. Anyone sent notice by VERO has the right to see NOCI details.

---

No, you do not have a right to see the Notice of Claimed Infringement (NOCI).

Paragraph (g) 2) (A) of 17 U.S. Code § 512 (Limitations on liability relating to material online) clearly spells out the obligation of the service provider (eBay):

"(A) takes reasonable steps promptly to notify the subscriber that it has removed or disabled access to the material;" 

eBay did that when they notified you of the takedown and provided you with contact information for the entity that filed the notice. They are only obligated to tell you they took it down - they are not obligated to show you the notice. 

General DMCA discussion:

The Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act (OSCILLA) under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) specifies that a Notice of Claimed Infringement (NOCI) is a notice to a website informing the website that it believes there is infringing content on the website.

It is not a notice to the person who posted the alleged infringing material. OSCILLA gives the website a pass for not knowing about ingringement by a website user, but it does not give the website user a pass for the infringement itself. The website gets 'safe harbor' as long as they perform under OSCILLA. It assumes that the person posting the content should know better. 

The subscriber's "remedy" would be to file a counter-notice with eBay within 10 days, and by doing so challenge the IP owner to sue them in court. If that does not happen, the provider would (theoretically) restore the content. 

eBay-specific discussion: 

VERO is a program created entirely by eBay, administered by eBay, and run by eBay. The purpose of the program is to protect the website from liability for the actions of its users. VERO helps protects eBay from liability if they are sued by Fender, it does not protect you from anything. 

The NOCI that eBay received about your listing and the subsequent takedown were about protecting eBay from liability for infringing Fender's intellectual property, not about protecting you from liability for infringing Fender's intellectual property.

In other words - VERO is about protecting eBay, not about protecting eBay users. Regardless of any NOCI that was filed with eBay or any actions taken by eBay, you are still legally liable for posting infringement content.

When eBay sent you the takedown notice, they gave you the contact information for the IP rights owner who filed the NOCI. That is the extent of their obligation to you. Your remedy would be to file a counter-totic with eBay, after which Fenders would either sue you in court or eBay would (theretically, but not necessarily*) restore the listing. 

* Even if Fender declines to respond to a counter-notice with a court case, eBay has a separate section of their User Agreement that allows eBay to refuse any listing for any seller at any time for any reason. SO although the law says that eBay should restore the listing, you agreed that this might not be the case. 

[luckythewinner]

As the specifics of your case: 

"FENDER®, STRATOCASTER®, STRAT®, TELECASTER®, TELE®, P BASS®, PRECISION BASS®, ACOUSTASONIC®, SQUIER ®, JAZZ BASS®, J BASS®, JAG-STANG®, JAGUAR®, JAZZMASTER®, MUSTANG®, NOCASTER®, PASSPORT®, PRINCETON®, RELIC®, ROAD WORN®, SFX®, SHOWMAN®, SHOWMASTER®, STARCASTER®, SUNN®, SUPER BULLETS®, SUPER REVERB®, THE SPIRIT OF ROCK-N-ROLL®, TONE MASTER®, TWIN REVERB®, VIBRO CHAMP®, VIBRO-KING®, VIBROLUX®, Stylized F (in Thick & Thin Script), FENDER (standard and in Stylized Thick & Thin Script), and the distinctive headstock shapes commonly found on the Stratocaster, Telecaster and other Fender guitars are trademarks of Fender"

https://www.fender.com/pages/terms-of-use

I see some of your completed items have things like "Strat neck" listed as the "Model" or "Manufacturer's part number" in the item specifics.

Perhaps it was using Trademarks like this that Fender objected to, or even the headstock shapes themselves. 

[rivingston41]

the paragraph you stated does not exist in the following document:

https://www.copyright.gov/policy/section512/section-512-full-report.pdf

The fact is that the items listed are generic in nature, no logos, no serial numbers. It is designed to fit Brands "A", "B", "C".

If the listing is generic in nature, there is no infringement or deception.