UPRISE IN EBAY SCAMS.

[indianflash]

So I’ve run across new scams that I have never seen selling for 17 years. One scam is they use forwarding companies in DE or OR, and FL to ship to and then forward the mail to where they are scamming from, (way to hide their address) I had this recently and as soon as it was delivered to the address in OREGON they open a case as IND (damaged) and they sent “supposedly my item” (instax camera which was new) from California with the me paid return label eBay gives buyer for returns. What was inside when we got it was a pc of paper that said thank you for your order. Contacted eBay and showed how can I ship an item to OREGON And it come back from california. They sided with us but because in the return processes buyer closed his eBay account which automatically makes them lose from eBay money back guarantee eBay told me to do nothing. Also around the same time he opened an unauthorized charge back with his CC. I’m waiting for the outcome but eBay says I’m covered in this. 

the second scam which has to be new is buyer bought item, as soon as it was delivered. Opened chanced my mind and wanted to return. They sent item back with our return label but the address that was on the package was not even ours. They like taped another address on top but used our tracking info. What is very puzzling is the address they used was in the same zip code as us but like a whole other area around our neighborhood maybe like 1-2 miles radius from our house. When we say delivered package we went to check mail and their was nothing their. We went to post office same day and must have been very lucky as the post office guy who helped us was so friendly he showed us when they scan them they take snap shots of the package. He showed me that it was a small envelope sent back that was flat and no way the Google chromecast we shipped was in that. The Address was not even ours. They were nice and even let us take a photo of the picture they had on file but had to cover some of the address details. Which we were totally fine. With. This showed proof for eBay that buyer never even shipped item back to us.  We opened case with eBay after we called eBay. 30min-1hr later we get a message from eBay that they closed case in our favor and buyer was not refunded. If you run across this type of scam you wont be lucky as most postal clerks are rude and lazy to give this much info and the proof i needed to send ebay. 

what we are seeing is most those doing the scam have very little to no feedback. Or new accounts just opened to start the scam,  Both our scams involved California. Also had a chargeback come in from the Orgeon forwarding company for another instax we sold. Which again were told by eBay we should be protected on the chargeback. 

My personal advise even that not all cases are scams is cancel all sales from forward companies if your item is of value. Mostly electronics that are new. eBay buyer name and ship to name don’t match that is also a pretty good red flag. Mostly if you are selling anything of value really look out and cancel the sale. It’s gonna suck as sales are decreasing on eBay but the pickup of scammers has increased. You will only be protected by eBay so much so you need to step up and start stopping the scams from occurring. This does not stop the long time sellers scamming too as they have learned the system. Theirs is a seller on eBay that is scamming left and right even has feedback from 10+ buyers (as positives because eBay won’t let us leave negatives) that he is waiting for last days of return and opening return and sending back another broken item then what you send. eBay is letting thieves sell/buy on eBay because they need buyers badly. With all the rise in scams I’m trying to find other business I can run. “Realnftvault” is his user name. Might get in trouble for saying but look as the crazyiness that even with 10+ ppl saying this guy scams eBay allows the user to sell/and buy on eBay. 

[mam98031]

Yes, many of us feel your pain.  It does seem to get worse as we go into the Holiday season.  

I don't recommend cancelling orders to a Freight Forwarder.  Most of the transactions are like fine.  But do take extra care and insure items that are of a certain value.

Keep in mind that Buyers could be purchasing stuff to send to their child that is away at college is just one reason why the ship to name and address would be different.

Be careful.  Don't assume things.  Do your best to get the facts.  I know it can be hard and it gets really dangerous for many sellers.  I hope things work out for you.

[slippinjimmy]

2 comments.....

Neither of these situations is new, reports of both types are reported here frequently, they have become more common in the past 5 years or so.

No harm posting the details again for others, especially good to see that eBay did protect you in both cases.

[fashunu4eeuh]

Hi @indianflash 

First, glad to see these two scam attempts were thwarted, and that your quick efforts, along with the eBay systems in place, prevented worst damage from happening.

Sadly, these scams are not new to the forum, as @slippinjimmy stated in his post. However, your actions are to be commended for taking the time to share experiences that could be beneficial to fellow sellers.

It is clear to see you are an upstanding seller, enjoying both success and longevity on eBay, so i hope you will pardon some disagreement i have.

@indianflash  wrote: “… most postal clerks are rude and lazy to give this much info and the proof i needed to send ebay.”

Over a 15 yr. eBay selling career, have found the USPS to be just the opposite. The postal workers in my branch are unfailingly hard-working, friendly and helpful. While there are bad eggs to be found in any profession, the USPS does not hold a monopoly on them.

”My personal advise even that not all cases are scams is cancel all sales from forward companies if your item is of value.”

I disagree with this advice on two fronts. The first is that selling to buyers who use freight forwarders has been one of the safest methods for doing business on eBay. Once an item is forwarded to a second address, the Money Back Guarantee policy states that such a transaction is no longer eligible to be covered by the Guarantee. (See the sections of the policy entitled ”Exclusions and special coverage when the buyer doesn’t receive an item” or  “Exclusions and special coverage when the item does not match the listing.”.)

Secondly, sellers must exercise great caution when canceling a sale. If a seller elects to cancel a transaction of his own accord (without buyer request), it can trigger a defect that can lower a member’s standing.

Once an item is sold, sellers are contractually obligated to ship. Not doing so can create what eBay terms as a Bad Buying Experience (BBE) for the customer. This could hurt all sellers if a buyer is lost due to one. In addition, eBay is starting to crack down on sellers who incorrectly cite the reason “problem with address” to avoid being given a defect  for a seller-initiated transaction cancellation.

“what we are seeing is most those doing the scam have very little to no feedback. Or new accounts just opened to start the scam…”

There is no way to predict who a scammer may be based on nothing but a feedback score. This goes for established eBayers, too. For the health of the platform, new buyers should be welcomed, not held up in suspicion.

“eBay buyer name and ship to name don’t match that is also a pretty good red flag..”

Disagree. Does not indicate anything nefarious. The buyer could be using an alternate address because they are sending an item as a gift, or want it sent to their place of employment, etc.

”Mostly if you are selling anything of value really look out and cancel the sale..”

Again, once an item sells, we are contractually obligated to ship it. While ebay cannot force us to ship, they can, at their discretion, suspend one’s selling privileges.

In actual practice, after the sale, sellers do not have the luxury of picking and choosing who they will ship to because of the policies governing seller-initiated transaction cancellations. So, the time to determine one’s risk tolerance is prior to listing the expensive item—not after the sale.

Not everything is suitable for every seller to list on eBay. Some categories are more attractive to scammers than others. Rather than attempt to manage one’s risk by cancelling sales, i would first urge a seller to re-evaluate what they are selling so to avoid ever having to cancel a transaction. 

[indianflash]

Well there’s usually red flags and I understand not all forward companies are bad I’ve sold plenty to them. It’s the current uprise. Scammers need ways to hide their identity as well. I’ve sold for so long on eBay and even local and even managed to trick a scammer when I was hustling from a young age in highschool that I’ve tried to get in the mind of how a scammer would process or think. They do target items of value for the most part. But these last two items were $39 and $80 both electronics that are new. I’ve even got one buyer who bought a new Lego set then open a return said all the pieces are white. He took the bags put all used white Pieces in ea bag and sealed them back up. Did a poor job. I had to open eBay claim and they give you the money and refund the buyer. eBay takes most these losses. I make eBay so much that giving back here and there does not hurt them. That Lego buyer is a seller on eBay as well. I find it so petty to steal like this. 

Being able to cancel sale on grounds of address is not gonna hurt you. Because you can even put in your listings you will not ship to forwarders. If we were to statistically see all the scams a big percentage would also have used a forward company. Again best way to hide identity. 

I understand why a name would be different. I get drop shippers all the time as well. When it comes down to it you will have a hard time proving to eBay that buyer is drop shipping even as it’s against EBAYS MBG policy. Even that eBay can see all their transactions they tend to look other way. Decrease in buyers is putting a toll on this market place. Most come here because prices are better then Amazon and love the EBAY MBG. Because the buyer loss on eBay, they are more on you to ship to everyone, but at end of day it’s your call. If you run a bad streak of scammers trust me ebay will think you are the problem and even being top rated seller you will end up having to take some of the cases as loss with no money back to you. 

Not only feedback you must use multiple ways of figuring and making a good judgement. Low feedback score, mismatch buyer and delivery address, most scam happen in California, New York, Florida, and the Delaware/Oregon forwarders. What item they are buying. How long before they made their next purchase. Not everyone leaves feedbacks but you see the last time a buyer got feedback was a 6m-1y ago and he’s coming and buying an expensive item you need to be cautious at the least. When you put on your listings that you won’t ship to forwarders it’s gonna potential help stop them from wasting time with you. Saying you require signature and that no change of address will be possible has helped me a lot as well. (Ups is best option to send high value items with signature required) 

sellers turn into scammers as well as they learn all the lingo to get around eBay Policies. You must sell items of all value as eBay is right, for most part most transactions go smoothly. It’s just the current uprise. The shady Amazon buyers are now coming to eBay. Or for me at least is what I’ve noticed.  It’s a numbers game the more items you list and sell you will not get into the threshold of fraudulent activity and even the amount of sales you cancel to protect yourself will still be in fair scope as more or your sales will be shipped out. It’s high dollar items you need to be watching. Scammers target certain catagories more then others. 

I’m sure all the longtime sellers will have a different perspective on same topics. 

[luckythewinner]

Both of these scams are as old as the hills, and both could have perpetrated in a much easier way.

The first scam was simply a fraudulent return - the only wrinkle was that the scammer was overseas and needed to use a freight forwarder. (Of course, he could have just filed a charge back from very the start and skipped the whole return thing.) P.S. legitimate returns can come from a different state because eBay recognizes that buyers can travel or move or give gifts. 

The second scam was a simply a fraudulent return - the only wrinkle was that the scammer did not realize he could have just sent the empty package back to you and gotten refunded.

[sextons-sweet-deals]

These are not new scams.

Sellers need to spend those 5 extra plus minutes checking out their buyer rather than a couple of hours fighting with eBay over a case.   Check their profile, location, all feedback category comments, and Google map / satellite address. 

Review that information and make your calculation if you should ship, cancel, or pay that small cost for signature required. 

[broto_64]

Sadly, your recommendation of cancelling sales is most likely going to affect good buyers as nervous nelly sellers take your advice. I mean, sure these are scams but you did get protection from ebay and it is the scammer that's out of luck. Certainly they can try the old game again but have some faith, in some sort of order the scammers will lose out.
There is also no "safe" method to cancel a sale without catching a defect, should the buyer report the seller for cancelling for reason "problem with address," you can thank the sellers who abused the "problem with address" reason when in reality they were out of stock for this change in the venue.

[indianflash]

Those new sellers would be less protected by eBay then longer time sellers. The amount of feedback and history one has does play a part in eBay’s decisions on cases. It’s like saying Walmart is selling empty boxes to customers. We are established sellers and you have a new person who is more likely the one scamming. eBay has to play middle man and try to keep all happy. Canceling a sale due to address is very limited again if the scam rate is like 2% and you are selling 100+ items a month you canceling it 1-3times will not hurt. Those others who cancel need to just organize better because usually that is an issue once you start growing and listing even more items on eBay. 

[flash-87]

You can block by username. That way this scammer cannot see any of your listings or communicate with you in the future. I've used this with success for those less desirables. 

[indianflash]

Yes but what scammers are doing is they use vpn so they open new accounts on eBay. Also when you scam someone I don’t think you gonna have that same person scam you again. When someone asks you a scamish question you can block them from purchasing from you. Only thing is a limit of 5000 lol. 

[broto_64]

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@indianflash wrote:

 The amount of feedback and history one has does play a part in eBay’s decisions on cases. 

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I stopped believing that fairy tale a long time ago. Most if not all cases are decided by software, there is no human intervention, you can call them all day long it matters not.

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@indianflash wrote:

We are established sellers and you have a new person who is more likely the one scamming. 

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Established accounts get hacked, and then used by scammers.
Ebay doesn't know the difference, they don't distinguish one from another.
They have algorithms in place, the only thing that will burn an account is continuous abuse.
Neither years as a member nor number of positive or overall feedback makes any difference. 

[mam98031]

@broto_64 

@indianflash wrote:

 The amount of feedback and history one has does play a part in eBay’s decisions on cases. 

I stopped believing that fairy tale a long time ago. Most if not all cases are decided by software, there is no human intervention, you can call them all day long it matters not.

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Your post is above the line.

I completely agree with you regarding Ebay not considering a seller's fb history when deciding a case.  Ebay has never done that and I've been here a long time.

As to the other part of your post.  That is inaccurate.  A common accusation in the past couple of months, but still not true.

[mam98031]

@broto_64 

@indianflash wrote:

We are established sellers and you have a new person who is more likely the one scamming. 

Established accounts get hacked, and then used by scammers.
Ebay doesn't know the difference, they don't distinguish one from another.
They have algorithms in place, the only thing that will burn an account is continuous abuse.
Neither years as a member nor number of positive or overall feedback makes any difference. 

*******************************************************************************

Your post above the line.

Why would there be a difference or better why do you see a difference?  The person performing the Hack is not doing it for altruistic reasons.  The hacker is likely the one that becomes the user of the hacked account to scam others.  Or maybe the hacker turns the info over to someone else so they can use the account to try and steal from others.  Not sure it makes any difference, it is all about stealing from other.

[broto_64]

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@mam98031 wrote:

@broto_64 

@indianflash wrote:

We are established sellers and you have a new person who is more likely the one scamming. 

Established accounts get hacked, and then used by scammers.
Ebay doesn't know the difference, they don't distinguish one from another.
They have algorithms in place, the only thing that will burn an account is continuous abuse.
Neither years as a member nor number of positive or overall feedback makes any difference. 

*******************************************************************************

Your post above the line.

Why would there be a difference or better why do you see a difference?  The person performing the Hack is not doing it for altruistic reasons.  The hacker is likely the one that becomes the user of the hacked account to scam others.  Or maybe the hacker turns the info over to someone else so they can use the account to try and steal from others.  Not sure it makes any difference, it is all about stealing from other.

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No man, we're not connecting, it's like we're on two different thought processes.
What I'm telling you is that feedback and longevity doesn't make a difference on ebay.