eBay

rustictrollop · ‎12-03-2017

In light of the fact that there have been a slew of new postings regarding fake merchandise, I wanted to share a little (true) story about fakes. Something marginally different from the usual 'fake' posts. The latest entry about the fake Burberry scarf made this pop into my head.

In another life 35 years ago, I ran an art gallery with my S.O. We enjoyed collecting pieces for our private collection and used to attend auctions. One day he came home with a huge expensively framed Salvador Dali print. I studied Dali extensively in art school, but I did not recognize this particular piece, nor was I able to find it in my reference books. The VERY fancy portfolio of official documents containing provenance, etc. provided by the seller looked on point. Still had nagging doubts. So we lugged this huge piece to a reputable modern art gallery in downtown Toronto.

The second we uncovered it, the owner yelled at us to get that piece of "bleep" out of his gallery. After calming down, at our insistence he explained why he knew it was fake. Long story short. He made a meaningful point about fakes that I will never forget to this day. If you LOVE something, be it art, a piece of jewelry, etc., then it's worth every penny you paid for it. Keep it and enjoy it, EVEN if it's a fake. This fake print cost a few thousand, and it wasn't one I even liked, particularly since it wasn't even a good copy of a Dali knock-off. The fancy impressive paperwork from the New York gallery was worth toilet paper. It was returned to the seller. But we were Yuppie snobs back then, and that stuff seemed important.

Fast forward a few years to the age of fantastic fake Chanel, Louis Vuitton, Rolexes, you name it. EVERYONE was buying the stuff up like mad because the fakes were so amazing. A Chinese co-worker of mine with a reliable source in Hong Kong, couldn't keep up with the demand and was selling fake items by the hundreds to her rich socialite clients (we worked in a high end spa/salon catering to the wealthy and famous). They WANTED these great fakes because they were as perfect as the originals, which they also had, so no one questioned them about it. Fakes were MUCH less expensive of course. But she had private parties, invitation only to evade investigation, and raked in the money. And Oh the money she made!! And rode that wave until the cheaper, not so good fakes starting showing up on the market, then pulled up her tent. Even I strutted the fake stuff feeling good about the money I'd saved.

Which brings me to that lovely Burberry scarf. If it's a fake, it's still really nice. I don't know what she paid for it, hopefully not a ridiculous amount. If it was expensive and fake, I say 'yes file for a SNAD', because of blatant false advertising. If it was a bargain and fake, if it were me, I'd have no problem keeping it and enjoying. My crowd wouldn't know real from fake Burberry, nor would they care. The Millenials are really into labels, like we Yuppies used to be, so I get her angst. Personally I refuse to sell fake items passed off as real on eBay...that's not cool and it's like stealing. My friends will take that stuff for nothing if I don't want it anymore and strut around with it....lol

Plus c'est change, plus c'est la meme chose. (The more things change, the more they stay the same).

ittybitnot · ‎12-03-2017

Personally I refuse to sell fake items passed off as real on eBay...that's not cool and it's like stealing.

So do I. That is just one of the reasons I gave up selling high end items here after 18 years. The proliferation of fakes has put a drain on the market for the real thing. Ebay allowing any buyer to "claim fake" regardless of the veracity is just another. Do an ebay SEARCH for the real art nouveau .....be it silver or gold and you will seel.

rustictrollop · ‎12-03-2017

@ittybitnot wrote:
Personally I refuse to sell fake items passed off as real on eBay...that's not cool and it's like stealing.

So do I. That is just one of the reasons I gave up selling high end items here after 18 years. The proliferation of fakes has put a drain on the market for the real thing. Ebay allowing any buyer to "claim fake" regardless of the veracity is just another. Do an ebay SEARCH for the real art nouveau .....be it silver or gold and you will seel.

I won't even sell my genuine designer purses here. Thought about it, then saw all the issues and decided it wasn't worth taking the chance. Might as well give them away. Same ending right?

My BF desperately wanted an antique mantle clock and looked at eBay first, but because it was too hard to tell real from fake, she ended up going to an antiques dealer. Saw that the prices of the real clocks were in the $10,000 - $12,000 range for what she wanted, and freaked of course. In the end the dealer sold her a "made in the style" of (classy way to say copied) mantle clock for $5,000. Still bona fide antique, still beautiful and exquisitely made. And it still had significant value. More importantly the dealer was honest with her. My friend passes it off as the genuine article and no one knows the difference, or cares for that matter....lol

nawlinsron2 · ‎12-03-2017

I've said on here before...the things you care about are the things you get done.
ebay gives lip service to preventing and uncovering fakes.

Follow the money...

castlemagicmemories · ‎12-03-2017

Put me in the who cares category.

I used to say, can you see it? Can you touch it? Then it's real.

But I don't think it is right to pass counterfeits off as the genuine article.

If it matters to someone, they should be able to buy what they want.

millcreekrescue909 · ‎12-03-2017

Amen

____________________________________

Always a newbie!

rustictrollop · ‎12-03-2017

@castlemagicmemories

I saw the post you made on the Burberry thread and thought the last line you wrote summed it up just perfectly:

"Don't feel badly if it isn't real and you have to file SNAD; it should not have been sold as Burberry if it isn't. Possibly those other buyers realized it was fake but did not care. Many don't."

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Exactly^^^^. Some care, some don't. And for the Sellers who are blatantly fooling the masses who don't know the difference until it's too late, sorry about your luck. It just ran out. It's SNAD time. The OP mentioned what she paid for the scarf....definitely too much if fake. I wouldn't even buy a real scarf at that price. I love and collect them, but only on the secondary market, and only a select few hold their value.

castlemagicmemories · ‎12-03-2017

@rustictrollop wrote:
@castlemagicmemories

I saw the post you made on the Burberry thread and thought the last line you wrote summed it up just perfectly:

"Don't feel badly if it isn't real and you have to file SNAD; it should not have been sold as Burberry if it isn't. Possibly those other buyers realized it was fake but did not care. Many don't."
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Exactly^^^^. Some care, some don't. And for the Sellers who are blatantly fooling the masses who don't know the difference until it's too late, sorry about your luck. It just ran out. It's SNAD time. The OP mentioned what she paid for the scarf....definitely too much if fake. I wouldn't even buy a real scarf at that price. I love and collect them, but only on the secondary market, and only a select few hold their value.

Thank you. Found this; I warn you, it is not for the squeamish and is kind of graphic, so you might want to pass on reading this. But it is eye opening.

The Fight Against Fakes

Child labor, terrorism, human trafficking: Buying counterfeit designer goods is hardly harmless, Dana Thomas reports

By Dana Thomas

Jan 8, 2009

AP Images/Bebeto Matthews

Every time I give a talk on the luxury business today and I get to the subject of counterfeiting, the same thing happens. The room grows absolutely silent as I put forth the facts: It is estimated that up to 7 percent of our annual world trade — $600 billion worth — is counterfeit or pirated; that fakes are believed to be directly responsible for the loss of more than 750,000 American jobs; that everything from baby formula to medicine is counterfeited, with tragic results; that counterfeiters and the crime syndicates they work with deal in human trafficking, child labor, and gang warfare; and that counterfeiting is used to launder money, and the money has been linked to truly sinister deeds such as terrorism.

No one utters a word, not a sound, as I recall the raid I went on with Chinese police in a tenement in Guangzhou and what we discovered when we walked in: two dozen sad, tired, dirty children, ages 8 to 14, making fake Dunhill, Versace, and Hugo Boss handbags on old, rusty sewing machines. It was like something out of Dickens, Oliver Twist in the 21st century.

Then I read the following passage from my book, Deluxe: How Luxury Lost Its Luster. "'I remember walking into an assembly plant in Thailand a couple of years ago and seeing six or seven little children, all under 10 years old, sitting on the floor assembling counterfeit leather handbags,' an investigator told me... 'The owners had broken the children's legs and tied the lower leg to the thigh so the bones wouldn't mend. [They] did it because the children said they wanted to go outside and play.'"

The audience gasps. From time to time, I see tears too. And afterward, I always hear the same response: "I had no idea." Always. Most consumers believe that buying fake goods is harmless, that it's a victimless crime. But it's not. It's not at all.

In the five years that I have been writing about this issue, I have seen two things happen: The illegal enterprise is getting stronger and more professional, and the consumer is slowly but surely becoming more aware.

castlemagicmemories · ‎12-03-2017

@rustictrollop wrote:
@castlemagicmemories

I saw the post you made on the Burberry thread and thought the last line you wrote summed it up just perfectly:

"Don't feel badly if it isn't real and you have to file SNAD; it should not have been sold as Burberry if it isn't. Possibly those other buyers realized it was fake but did not care. Many don't."
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Exactly^^^^. Some care, some don't. And for the Sellers who are blatantly fooling the masses who don't know the difference until it's too late, sorry about your luck. It just ran out. It's SNAD time. The OP mentioned what she paid for the scarf....definitely too much if fake. I wouldn't even buy a real scarf at that price. I love and collect them, but only on the secondary market, and only a select few hold their value.

And that is the other possibility: that some of those buyers are blissfully unaware that what they think is genuine, isn't.

Some don't care.

Some know it is fake, and do care.

And some never know.

rustictrollop · ‎12-03-2017

@castlemagicmemories

Wow. That article is a real eye-opener. It's so profoundly sad to think about how such items are made. Thank you for posting it. I own two fake LV items. Both were from the co-worker who was bringing them over by the shipping crate full. She had two little girls of her own and was a decent lady...I recall her telling us that when in Hong Kong, back in the early 1990's she would actually go to the place where her goods were manufactured...back alleys places, that sort of thing. I'm pretty sure her stuff was made by older people, which was probably why the quality was so high. Children couldn't have made the details so accurate, but who knows right? I haven't used my real and fake LV bags in years. I'm a country girl now, so no need for swanky labels around here.

What irks me is when I see the re-sale stores selling really cheap knocks offs, and most of them do, for ridiculously high prices. The purses being made now are absolute garbage, by comparison to 25 years ago. I always speak to the store managers when I find fakes and tell them it's illegal and their prices are ridiculous to boot. They say they really don't care and that it's not their problem. Once in a while I've found real ones, but that's so rare now because the employees are trained to know what they're looking at. In fact, a woman at a thrift shop yesterday saw me carefully examining a purse (while checking eBay....lol), and told me that her friend found an LV bag for a couple of dollars in one store, got it home then found the original price tag and receipt tucked into one of the pockets. It was the real deal. Now that is lucky!

Still, I wouldn't list genuine designer stuff here. Too risky!! (Or fake, as said before because it's ethically wrong, in so many ways). In the bigger picture though, I know some clothing manufacturers who make their items here in Canada because they have been to foreign countries where the huge factories/sweat shops are, and what they saw made them physically sick. I've heard the horror stories. Some will however justify, successfully to a degree, that employing child labour at least gives them a job for a minor wage, is still better than begging/starving in the street, particularly in places like India....where as soon as the little ones can walk, they're sent out to work (in the lower castes). So it is potentially a double-edged sword.

This is one of the reasons I no longer shop at Walmart...because of where the stuff comes from. I've seen documentaries about the sweatshops in India and China...ghastly....particularly in the jewelry sector. I think as more people become aware of these issues, there may be a change in attitude from the younger crowd (being optimistic of course). Older vintage clothes and other items, made locally and definitely made better, will become desirable again. My niece and her Millenial group are really getting into that whole vintage scene slowly but surely. But I started 'training' her mindset as to where cheap things come from versus value in older items, when she was young and still paying attention....lol

themagicmountain · ‎12-04-2017

LOL There really is not a lot that is "real"

As for the "real" louis vuittons, Chanels, etc? They are jusy hyped corporate products and illusions. The little people go broke buying this overpriced name brand junk, and a lot of it is made in sweatshops where they make cheaper stuff that is nearly the same. People have been told it has value, and they blindly believe it. It is a global corporate dream.

Chanel's company got taken over by scavengers who pushed her out of the way, and now use her name to push junk out of the company they stole from her. The "designs" are corporate factory product. There's no real value in it- just what corporate hype and their pocket media convince people to believe. They convinced people to worship a trademark.

As for the "real" Dalis? Dali didn't even do most of his own work. He had studio assistants do it. That is a tradition we know from the Renaissance Masters as well.

What is real? What is fake?

The diamond industry was pushed into the lives of people through movie product placements, magazine ad campaigns, and a scheming plan by a monopoly of diamond merchants to convince people that their rocks had value and were necessary to get engaged and married lol. But are diamonds any more truly "valuable" or "real" than pretty glass? The Egyptians treasured glass as having great value lol.

I shudder at the thought that young people spend money on the illusion of value in shiny baubles instead of toward a down payment on a house or paying off a college loan that probably have much more actual value in terms of life.

Things have value only because people believe they do. Or were told to believe they do.

themagicmountain · ‎12-04-2017

And the Lillian Vernon industry got started by Lillian and her husband knocking off handbag designs. Yes, they copied the "real" and built an empire.

themagicmountain · ‎12-04-2017

There is no "genuine designer stuff." It is corporate product hyped to the masses who are told to go broke worshiping labels.

nawlinsron2 · ‎12-04-2017

'xactly...how insecure do you have to be to think you can buy status?

rustictrollop · ‎12-04-2017

@nawlinsron2 wrote:
'xactly...how insecure do you have to be to think you can buy status?

Think back to the 1980's and the rise of status symbols. All the materialism and one-upmanship. Whether it was insecurity or proof that you 'made it' to the top of the heap, it doesn't matter. The medium was the message. The Trump's, the Reagan's, 'Lifestyles of the Rich & Famous', Miami Vice, Palm Beach, supermodels strutting Versace and Chanel. It was that dangling carrot that so many of us reached for because it was dazzling. A lot of people went into huge debt trying to obtain that Bang & Olufson Beo System, the Movado watch, the Chanel Suit and purses, the Porsche 911. I guess because of the beige blandness of the 1970's, the 1980's were like some insane tent revival with the advent MTV and the arrival of the 'beautiful people'. If you didn't succumb to all the excess, then lucky you.

Personally, I enjoyed it while it lasted. Unfortunately my bank account paid the price. No different from the Millenials now who want the lastest Apple product the second it comes out, the Nike shoes, X-boxes, whatever the 'KarTrashian's' are spotted wearing, Lululemon, etc. etc. Not much has changed, if you really think about it.