Service Metrics - EBay has given enough information to prove racketeering

[sonoranboutique]

This is about the Service Metrics page (not  the Seller Dashboard.)  If you go to this page and it says you have a "Very High" rating, starting today you are paying 40% higher fees: https://www.ebay.com/sh/prf/service-metrics

This is based on your "Item Not As Described" return rates, which cannot be disputed, even if the buyer lies about why they returned the item.  In a recent Q&A video where someone asks about this, EBay admitted that "incorrect returns exist", but the solution they offered was that they "only measure your performance against closely related peers that face a similar risk."

This is flawed logic, and thus, EBay has admitted to racketeering.  Why?  The reason "incorrect returns" are incorrect is because they are received randomly and are out of the seller's control.  So let's say the peer average in your category is 3 "incorrect returns" a month.  This doesn't mean every seller in your category gets exactly 3.  Some people will get 0 or 1, while some will randomly get 7 through bad luck.  If you are the one with bad luck, you are punished.   So EBay has admitted that a certain percentage of sellers with bad luck will be charged extra fees each month.

EBay has admitted that, each month, a percentage of unlucky sellers will randomly be charged more fees for something Ebay calls "incorrect returns", which cannot be disputed.

[goodluckselling]

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@a_c_green wrote:

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@gracieallen01 wrote:

Do you know if there is someplace where ebay specifies the criteria they use to determine a 'peer'?  Not just 'sellers who sell similar', but specifics.

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I can't come up with a link for this at the moment, but I thought this question came up during a recent Weekly Chat, and did get an answer in some detail. Browsing the past two or three Weekly Chats might turn it up.

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Your peers are sellers who

• list on the same listing site as yours,
• sell items in the same category and
• have similar listing attributes such as item price,
• estimated delivery dates,
• item condition, and
• return policy

You can find this definition on the service metric page by hovering over the "see how you compare to your peers" pop up message. 

Volume sellers will have the 3 month look back while the rest will have the 12 month look back.  If you are not showing any peer benchmarks in one of your categories it just means you have not meet the minimum to be rated yet (this is a good thing).

The number will change frequently after you get the minimum because the rating is based on not just your actions but all your peers as well.   Many will never get to the minimum (no extra FVFs) or will go inside the minimum and outside of it over and over as older transactions fall off the back end.

I do not think many seller will be affected negatively (higher FVFs) by this new policy.  It would be difficult to stay at a very high rating unless you are really bad at being a seller on eBay.

Good Luck Selling!

[zamo-zuan]

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@castlemagicmemories wrote:

I see your point but if the average of peers includes small sellers and large sellers, that would be to the large sellers advantage as the smaller sellers, with less returns, would bring down the percentage for you as a large seller.

Of course that would break down if the small seller was a chronic SNAD lister.

But all things being equal, it could actually be of benefit to the large seller such as yourself.

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Definitely does not seem like it is being brought down at all. That's the only way the rates they have here, which include defects + SNAD + damaged during shipping... are under 50% of the manufacturer defect rate.

They did say that smaller sellers do not have to worry about 1 or 2 sales, or sellers with small sales bulk, causing them a penalty. They probably don't even include small sellers with NEGATIVE metrics.

But they are very obviously counting small sellers with 100% metrics and very few sales.

Regardless, we can be sure "peers" are not actually comparable sellers to your stores. Casual sellers are being put in the same boat as bulk sellers. They specified casual sellers with few sales don't have to worry...

So it seems the sellers who have to worry, are the ones who take it seriously & are trying to grow sales, or the bulk sellers with large amounts of sales. 

As mentioned... this problem can be easily solved. Either make "tiers" of sellers - like < 10k/month, <50k/month, and >100k/month should suffice.

Or just allow sellers to appeal incorrect return reasons. There's no way we could justify punishing a seller for returns that customers admit mistakes in... 

(Solving the issue of "damaged during shipment" counting as SNAD is a separate issue sadly).

[gracieallen01]

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@zamo-zuan wrote:

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It is very obviously counting every seller on eBay.

....

I just hope they make it actually fair. Allow sellers to appeal return reasons. It will be a hassle that of course sellers would rather not have to deal with. But it's the only way to make sure these metrics target people that DESERVE penalties, and ensure that those who are doing a good job are not punished for customers mistakes.

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Under their current system planned, I don't believe that it would be possible, even with appeals. 

Fair, actual and unbiased appeals, overseen and decided by humans isn't a likely scenario.  Between the resources needed and the inclination required, I would think that the likelihood is of that happening is only slightly more than nil.

[Anonymous]

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@gracieallen01 wrote:

Do you know if there is someplace where ebay specifies the criteria they use to determine a 'peer'?  Not just 'sellers who sell similar', but specifics.

Or, is it some super-secret formula - that can be adjusted as needed?

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Take a look at this

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Service-Metrics-Video-Q-amp-A/m-p/29020834#M1293894

[gracieallen01]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@gracieallen01 wrote:

Do you know if there is someplace where ebay specifies the criteria they use to determine a 'peer'?  Not just 'sellers who sell similar', but specifics.

Or, is it some super-secret formula - that can be adjusted as needed?

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Take a look at this

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Service-Metrics-Video-Q-amp-A/m-p/29020834#M1293894

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Sorry, but those don't like my machine and never have been able to get any of them to play.

[zamo-zuan]

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@goodluckselling wrote:

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@a_c_green wrote:

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@gracieallen01 wrote:

Do you know if there is someplace where ebay specifies the criteria they use to determine a 'peer'?  Not just 'sellers who sell similar', but specifics.

---

I can't come up with a link for this at the moment, but I thought this question came up during a recent Weekly Chat, and did get an answer in some detail. Browsing the past two or three Weekly Chats might turn it up.

---

Your peers are sellers who

• list on the same listing site as yours,
• sell items in the same category and
• have similar listing attributes such as item price,
• estimated delivery dates,
• item condition, and
• return policy

You can find this definition on the service metric page by hovering over the "see how you compare to your peers" pop up message. 

Volume sellers will have the 3 month look back while the rest will have the 12 month look back.  If you are not showing any peer benchmarks in one of your categories it just means you have not meet the minimum to be rated yet (this is a good thing).

The number will change frequently after you get the minimum because the rating is based on not just your actions but all your peers as well.   Many will never get to the minimum (no extra FVFs) or will go inside the minimum and outside of it over and over as older transactions fall off the back end.

I do not think many seller will be affected negatively (higher FVFs) by this new policy.  It would be difficult to stay at a very high rating unless you are really bad at being a seller on eBay.

Good Luck Selling!

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I've commented on this post elsewhere on the site, but I can guarantee all those are not being counted. How many in the category can compete with prices similar to the top 10 in Motors categories? Dropshippers can't, casual sellers can't. Only manufacturers and distributors can.

Delivery dates & return policies... same deal. Until recently, very few in our category adopted both GD and FR. Yet the peer rate has not changed. If they actually counted these things, the peer rate would have changed as more sellers adopted FR.

Try searching "3211" on eBay, and set the category to motor mounts. Look how many of them actually have adopted GD. Only a small handful of sellers.

Again, how can the math of this possibly add up to the return rate + damaged during shipment rate, possibly be under half of the manufacturers defect rate?

Regarding if many people will be affected by this, I think that highly depends on category. But I can say, if with our software that is something 99% of sellers out there don't have something similar.... we are still "High".... I feel bad for all the sellers out there in our category who are growing and/or have not adopted free returns. They are basically guaranteed to be in Very High.

Many sellers won't be able to compete now. Maybe we should be happy about this because we're not being affected by the policy... but it don't feel good, because it just doesn't seem like a "fair" advantage.

How about doing a poll of how many sellers can share their metrics and they are NOT in high or very high,,,,? And how much of a bulk do they actually sell?

[Anonymous]

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@zamo-zuan wrote:

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Try searching "3211" on eBay, and set the category to motor mounts. Look how many of them actually have adopted GD. Only a small handful of sellers.

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eBay is looking at high-level categories, not subcategories.

Clothing, Shoes and Accessories means that a clothing seller can be compared to someone who sells handbags. Obviously the clothing seller will have more issues because of fit and false SNADs.

Home & Garden means that someone who sells ice cream makers can be compared with someone who sells similarly priced table linens.

Collectibles has a broad range of products, too. A lot of the categories do.

It would be more fair if eBay drilled down at least to one level of subcategory.

[bosmingfarg]

Ebay makes Big Brother look like Mister Rogers. The service metrics **bleep** is designed by a sadist. Can ebay make sellers feel any smaller when they pull stunts like this ???

[goodluckselling]

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@goodluckselling wrote:

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For ‘Item not as described’ returns, your peers are other sellers with a

• comparable volume of transactions,
• that sell items in the same category as you,
• with a similar price,
• item condition,
• return policy, and
• estimated delivery date.

 If peers have to meet all these attributes equally to be in the same peer group.  Seems to me like not many sellers will be in the same peer groups?  There could be hundreds of peer groups for the same category? 

Good Luck Selling!

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[gracieallen01]

Sorry, but that is still highly lacking in 'SPECIFICS'.  Not to mention which ones they may or may not include in the calculations, if appropriate.

[zamo-zuan]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@zamo-zuan wrote:

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Try searching "3211" on eBay, and set the category to motor mounts. Look how many of them actually have adopted GD. Only a small handful of sellers.

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eBay is looking at high-level categories, not subcategories.

Clothing, Shoes and Accessories means that a clothing seller can be compared to someone who sells handbags. Obviously the clothing seller will have more issues because of fit and false SNADs.

Home & Garden means that someone who sells ice cream makers can be compared with someone who sells similarly priced table linens.

Collectibles has a broad range of products, too. A lot of the categories do.

It would be more fair if eBay drilled down at least to one level of subcategory.

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Well, you are right, that's definitely not as fair. But same problem still. We sell many auto parts and Ignition Coil's are not our primary category.

Similar defect rates apply to most sensors (o2 sensors, etc), ignition coils, spark plugs, etc.

Our primary category is engine mounts, and even for engine mounts, the average rate is for sure higher than that. I'm not sure what type of motors item would actually have a low return rate?

Without a doubt, motors as a whole is a category with high return rates. It's hard for buyers to choose the exact parts for their vehicle. But the mistakes get blamed on sellers. 

For example, I was just looking through some of our returns in our email...

I noticed buyer claiming they "can't send pictures my phone doesn't support that - Sent from iPhone"... lol 

"Wrong item sent - the bolt is not long enough" - the longer bolt is found only in models with HIGHER liters for this vehicle (it is even in the documentation on manufacturers website).

"Defective".... claiming it is defective because it did not fit, even though it's a SOLID METAL item, therefore the only way it could possibly be defective if it was broken or something like that... obviously a case of ordering the wrong item, but there's no way for us to challenge it so we have to accept it.

"I ordered REAR mount, you delivered front one" - his pictures verify the mount he received is properly the REAR one, again confirmed on the manufacturers website.

It's pretty ridiculous... Not really fair that there's no way to challenge these if they could possibly contribute to a higher FVF. 

As I said, I feel very bad for any others in our category, because if we're high at a higher software verification than most businesses have... it must be extremely unfair to sellers who don't have verification + do not do free returns.

[Anonymous]

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@zamo-zuan wrote:

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As I said, I feel very bad for any others in our category, because if we're high at a higher software verification than most businesses have... it must be extremely unfair to sellers who don't have verification + do not do free returns.

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That's exactly the point. eBay wants sellers to evaluate how to reduce SNADs.

For some it will mean better descriptions, photos, etc and those sellers likely won't change meaning they'll either pay higher fees or leave.

For a small few it will mean better inventory & shipping management.

For others it will mean identifying specific products that have a high rate of SNADs and choosing to remove those items from their inventory.

And for the rest it means a push into free returns. These are sellers who are doing everything right but they have an unfair peer comparison because of the high-level category evaluation. eBay would love it if every seller offered free returns.

[goodluckselling]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@zamo-zuan wrote:

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Try searching "3211" on eBay, and set the category to motor mounts. Look how many of them actually have adopted GD. Only a small handful of sellers.

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eBay is looking at high-level categories, not subcategories.

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Right.  When you look at your service metric page the ratings are based by the main category.  I do not think eBay needs to filter down any extra sub cats?  There are a number of attributes that all have to be met to be included in any peer seller group including similar volume of transactions that I left out earlier.

If we look at the list again  In red is how eBay defines each of these areas

• comparable volume of transactions, = sellers with a 3 month look back versus other sellers with a 3 month look back would be in the same peer group for this attribute.
• that sell items in the same category as you, = eBay is using just the main category
• with a similar price, = eBay is using  50.00 to 100.00  I do not know any other break downs on price? Maybe 50 dollar increments?
• item condition, = new versus new would be same peer group for this attribute
• return policy, and = seller accepts returns versus other sellers who accept returns
• estimated delivery date. =  If a seller has 3 business days for estimated deliver then all sellers with less than or equal to 10 business days would be in the same peer group for this attribute

To me that is a lot of exact comparisons that other sellers in my categories would have to meet the same specifics as I have to be my peer seller in that category.

These definitions also give us some insight into how to make changes should we get a very high rating.  By the way this info is on the Monitor your service metrics page  -  Click here to read more on this

Good Luck Selling!

[gracieallen01]

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@goodluckselling wrote:

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@goodluckselling wrote:

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For ‘Item not as described’ returns, your peers are other sellers with a

• comparable volume of transactions,
• that sell items in the same category as you,
• with a similar price,
• item condition,
• return policy, and
• estimated delivery date.

 If peers have to meet all these attributes equally to be in the same peer group.  Seems to me like not many sellers will be in the same peer groups?  There could be hundreds of peer groups for the same category? 

Good Luck Selling!

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Perhaps, IF that 'a' in red is in their write-up, a 'peer' only has to be in one of those groups - and, like I am wondering what do they consider 'similar'?

[goodluckselling]

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@gracieallen01 wrote:

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@goodluckselling wrote:

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@goodluckselling wrote:

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For ‘Item not as described’ returns, your peers are other sellers with a

• comparable volume of transactions,
• that sell items in the same category as you,
• with a similar price,
• item condition,
• return policy, and
• estimated delivery date.

 If peers have to meet all these attributes equally to be in the same peer group.  Seems to me like not many sellers will be in the same peer groups?  There could be hundreds of peer groups for the same category? 

Good Luck Selling!

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Perhaps, IF that 'a' in red is in their write-up, a 'peer' only has to be in one of those groups - and, like I am wondering what do they consider 'similar'?

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 that a was my mistake.  I change the font color and missed the a.  See the post right above for specifics that you were unsure about.  Those definitions are right from the monitor your service metric page.  eBay has defined them fairly well. 

The explanation is clearly telling us that all these attributes are what defines who your peer is in any category.  Each category you sell in will have different peer groups and so you will see different service metric ratings for each of the categories you sell in.

Good Luck Selling!