Seller Protection Lip Service

[general.store.usa]

I sold a well functioning Panasonic Toughbook to buyer.  I videoed the item as I was packaging and shipping, showing that the item was working properly before closing the box.  Buyer states that the item was broken and opened case.  After receiving the returned item, I videoed the box as I opened and tested the toughbook.  It did not work, totally different than video of it working at shipping.  I issued an 85% refund (15% for restocking fee) in good faith - thinking this was just a case of "Buyers Remorse".  eBay closed case and returned 15% as well.  Toughbooks are knowned to be hardy, I've driven a car over mine three times with no damage whatsover.  Now I am stuck with a computer that was working at time of shipping and now no longer does.  I called eBay to appeal case to no avail.   eBay seller protection is total lip service.

[emerald40]

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@general.store.usa wrote:

I sold a well functioning Panasonic Toughbook to buyer.  I videoed the item as I was packaging and shipping, showing that the item was working properly before closing the box.  Buyer states that the item was broken and opened case.  After receiving the returned item, I videoed the box as I opened and tested the toughbook.  It did not work, totally different than video of it working at shipping.  I issued an 85% refund (15% for restocking fee) in good faith - thinking this was just a case of "Buyers Remorse".  eBay closed case and returned 15% as well.  Toughbooks are knowned to be hardy, I've driven a car over mine three times with no damage whatsover.  Now I am stuck with a computer that was working at time of shipping and now no longer does.  I called eBay to appeal case to no avail.   eBay seller protection is total lip service.

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Filming does absolutely nothing to bolster your case.  I do not know why so many sellers think it will help.

Also, if a seller files SNAD, then you cannot charge a restocking fee.  It is for remorse only.

Are you sayingyou got a different one back then the one you sent?

If not, then things like that happen.  They work one minute and the next they do not.  Sometimes the stress of shipping can add to a product's sudden demise.

[tunicaslot]

Unfortunately, you've spent a lot of time videotaping your actions that are not helpful in a case. Did you write down the item's serial number before sending it and chaeck that it was indeed the same item you received back?

Once you received the return - you should have come straight to the boards on how to proceed as at least one of us has been in your situation before. Even tho you videotaped everything - Ebay would not and can't use that as evidence as it's still a he said - she said situation. They have no idea if the item you videotaped was indeed the item you sent - they just have your word on that.

[tunicaslot]

You are a fairly new seller - selling in a high scam area and there are people that will target you because they know how Ebay works and how most newer sellers will respond - allowing them to get the item for free - of if they damage it - get their money back.

[retrose1]

Did you check the serial numbers to see if you got back the same puter and not the buyer broke one they used yours to upgrade with?

As you have learned - video of you packing the item is a useless waste of time.   Not selling your high dollar/high risk items until you have at least as much recent selling feedback as the dollar value of your item, is a much better idea.

I have lots of feedback and would never, EVER list electronics or tech on ebay.

[rw011164]

What you experienced is a buyers MBG. Sellers are not protected from buyers in a SNAD claim, that is a buyers protection claim. You are required to refund the buyer in full add it should be. You acknowledge that it does not work, they buyer should not be out anything on this.

Regarding filming yourself packaging, that will never prove anything. It likely worked as you said before you shipped it, then it didn't. Any laptop can get damaged in shipping. Not sure why you drive a car over yours, sounds like you are a little hard on them. 

Sellers are protected only in very limited and very specific circumstances and are never protected from a buyers protection

[a_c_green]

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@general.store.usa wrote:

It did not work, totally different than video of it working at shipping.  I issued an 85% refund (15% for restocking fee) in good faith - thinking this was just a case of "Buyers Remorse".

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Why would returning a defective/dead laptop be considered "Buyer's Remorse"?

I notice you did clearly show the laptop serial number in photos. Did you get the same one back? (I know you said that it doesn't work, but I'm assuming that the serial must be physically stamped on it someplace as well.)

[emerald40]

Rose and others - question.

Even if you know by the serial number that it is not the same one you sent, would ebay take note of that or would a buyer still lose?

[retrose1]

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@emerald40 wrote:

Rose and others - question.

Even if you know by the serial number that it is not the same one you sent, would ebay take note of that or would a buyer still lose?

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Of course not - but the police and the post office fraud case would.

[a_c_green]

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@emerald40 wrote:

Rose and others - question.

Even if you know by the serial number that it is not the same one you sent, would ebay take note of that or would a buyer still lose?

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(I assume you mean "seller" above...)

I think the first round would go to the buyer. The automated dispute resolution would see that something got delivered back to the seller, and refund the buyer on that basis. It would be up to the seller to squawk to a live person at that point, pointing to the original listing and uploading a photo or two showing the different serial number that came back. Maybe getting one of the eBay people here involved could help.

But yes, it would be an uphill battle at best. The seller might get more traction with police and USPS Postal Inspector reports rather than eBay, if it comes to that. At least he'd have documentation of the specific item that went out, as well as the one that came back, provably different.

[general.store.usa]

Money Back Guarantee (MBG) is a unilateral and arbitrary action by eBay.  I clearly stated in my original auction listing that the toughbook was "ready to use out of the box" and have video proof of such.   In this case the buyer broke the toughbook.  These are hardy computers - there was no cosmetic damage. However, the OS was no longer loading when it was returned (rendering the laptop useless), totally contrary to when it was videoed working while being packed and shipped.  This could not have broken while in transit. 

"Significantly Not As Described" does not apply here, as the toughbook was filmed operational before sealing the shipping box.

eBay states that selling on eBay is at the sellers risk and will not budge when countered.

Short of physically handing the toughbook personally to the buyer, showing him/her that it is operation (while videoing) will eBay may possibly accept the sellers integrity.

I agree that the buyer should not be liable if the item is "dead on arrival (doa)" and I have complied with this before, but that said, the seller should have some leverage in cases where there has been questionable buyer activity - especially with video proof.  This is why eBays Seller Protection is Lip Service.

[general.store.usa]

These toughbooks are tough and resilient - like I stated, I've driven over mine a few times without damage. There was no cosmetic damage, however, after receiving it as a return, the OS was not loading - rendering the toughbook useless. This doesn't happen during shipping, but rather buyer malfeasance.

[general.store.usa]

Yes, useless time and effort videoing. Now I know better. I closely and clearly video the make/model/serial number during shipping and after return. It was the same but the OS was hosed. Questionable Buyer activity.

[d-k_treasures]

You might want to check inside and make sure you still have things like memory, a hard drive, etc., if the serial # matches.

[general.store.usa]

I have been with eBay since 2005 with my other store - Cyberlnx. I have 100% feedback on 1105 items, and countless sold toughbooks (without feedback). I have passed operation of that eBay site to my brother to run. This is my second store - branching off to electronics in general, rather than toughbooks specifically.