eBay

walter847 · ‎11-09-2017

Hello,

I was wondering how people cover themselves when this situation arrives.

I recentely received a chargeback, I had the USPS number and date it was shipped, however the person who ordered the items waited for the 90 days so it disappeared from Ebay as they only keep them for 90 days in the Ebay system. Then they waited to the exact day of 120 days which USPS only keeps them in their system. So I was not able to prove proof of delivery, however the chargeback was for unauthorized use not for the delivery. I did give Paypal the USPS number, date and address it was sent to. I lost the case not due to having a delivery confirmation. So they took the amount of both items ordered and a extra $20.00 for fee out of my account.

Just wondering how I can protect myself in this situation. Because once people fiqure this out that all information dissapears from Ebay & USPS it's a easy way to lose a ton of money.

I think the only way would be to print every delivered order after it is delivered but that would be extremely hard to do. Credit cards allow up to I believe 6 months for chargebacks.

Thank you!

starroute-us · ‎11-09-2017

Sorry, sounds like your buyer knew exactly how to play the game and win.:(

Signature required when mailing, then the tracking stays in the system longer, although it is costly to do so.

I have a higher $$ amount for my risk when I use sig required and I do state that the item will be sent with signature required in my listing so it is no surprise to the buyer.

Unauthorized use should only require proof of mailing for a win, so IF you have actual receipts for that I would be calling PP again to dispute the outcome.

walter847 · ‎11-09-2017

Thank you, I thought of signature required, but I would possibly lose a ton of money not be able to compete with the other Ebay seller prices.

I will have to really think about this, as in the long run it could cost me more not having a signature required.

I will check back with PP, but I only have address, name and USPS# in system which now has disappeared on the USPS site. Not sure on what receipt you would be talking about?

Track your shipment9405509699938519894714June 9, 2017, Sent by USPSStatus: Shipped This is all that shows plus her address on Paypal. I copied this from the transaction page. Its gone from both systems Ebay & Paypal, so I can not see when it was delivered. I really beleive this is a scam.

Thanks Again.

couldabeenworse · ‎11-09-2017

Unauthorized Use chargebacks do not require proof of delivery, only Proof of Shipment. If you have a receipt for shipping (paper or electronic if you printed a label), phone paypal and remind them that you should have seller protection.

southern*sweet*tea · ‎11-09-2017

@couldabeenworse wrote:
Unauthorized Use chargebacks do not require proof of delivery, only Proof of Shipment. If you have a receipt for shipping (paper or electronic if you printed a label), phone paypal and remind them that you should have seller protection.

All the tracking information has been reset since it's been over 90 days. Check the tracking number. https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction?tLabels=9405509699938519894714

The tracking is now useless, hence the reason for the "buyer" waiting so long.

The easier you are to offend the easier you are to control.

We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what somebody else did. - Thomas Sowell

couldabeenworse · ‎11-09-2017

All the tracking information has been reset since it's been over 90 days. Check the tracking number. https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction?tLabels=9405509699938519894714

The tracking is now useless, hence the reason for the "buyer" waiting so long.

The tracking doesn't matter for an Unauthorizede Use chargeback. The seller needs to provide a receipt for shipping - either a paper receipt if postage was purchased at the post office, or an electronic record if he printed the label through eBay, PayPal or whomever.

couldabeenworse · ‎11-09-2017

The tracking doesn't matter

I should rephrase that. Tracking would have also won the case for the seller if it still existed. Since it is gone in this case, the other way to win the claim is with the receipt for postage.

Which, by the way, answers the OP's actual question on how to protect himself from these chargebacks: save your receipts or use a shipping service that keeps those records for you.

no-plain-white-envelopes · ‎11-09-2017

File a mail fraud case against the buyer with USPS inspectors!

emerald40 · ‎11-09-2017

@no-plain-white-envelopes wrote:
File a mail fraud case against the buyer with USPS inspectors!

Just wanted to bring something up.

In my area they have changed from a paper you have to sign to something that you do on their hand held thingie.

Being left handed I was having a bit of trouble and said it is not going to look like how I really sign things.

He said most people just do a straight line or a sqiggle.

So if that is the case how much protection can that be because the signer can just deny it is his signature.

JMO but you should have to show ID like a license when you sign for a package.

chirovette6yg3 · ‎11-10-2017

@walter847 wrote:
Thank you, I thought of signature required, but I would possibly lose a ton of money not be able to compete with the other Ebay seller prices.
I will have to really think about this, as in the long run it could cost me more not having a signature required.

This is a tough dilemma, to be honest.

As a buyer, and I buy a crapload of stuff from Amazon Prime, Newegg, and many other sites (though, not so much from eBay in the past few years) I count on my goods being delivered without having to sign since I am out a lot, and the whole "delivery attempt" thing, where in the worst case scenario I have to go pick it up at my local FEDEX/UPS/USPS office just doesn't work for me.

I assume in this age of "everyone leaves packages at your door and to hell with the consequences" that I am not alone in this, and I think it could cost you more, as you suggest, in the long run. I personaly wouldn't order anything that won't be left at my door. Not saying I represent the majority of people, but I know that this may be a consideration for your eBay business.

That said, I have to also contradict myself lol:

Now that I think about it, I think that a lot of the items I order are "signature required," but the packages are still always left at my door. A few months back, I made a piece-meal upgrade to my home theater system, ordering a receiver from one site, wires from another, cables like HDMI in another order, and even got different deals on the entire 7.1 Set of speakers from various sellers on Amazon and Newegg and such. I ordered PS4 Pro, XBox One S, some games, a bunch of 4K discs, and on and on. And even with the most expensive stuff, that had to be "signature only" because of the price tag (I assume) they were just left at my door, no questions asked.

In fact, my delivery guys (all three major parcel services) more often than not, don't even knock on my door when I am home!

So take that for what its worth.

couldabeenworse · ‎11-10-2017

To answer your message, yes, if you shipped through eBay, that is the documentation you need(ed) to provide to paypal. It is unclear just how much information is automatically shared between eBay and PayPal. It IS clear that PayPal often plays dumb when it comes to Seller Protection. So, it is important that the seller makes sure they have the information, rather than trusting either eBay or PayPal.

I would still call paypal and request this be covered by Seller Protection. If this transaction is past some sort of appeal deadline, I'd at least keep this in mind for future transactions. If you met the other Seller Protection requirements, you should not have lost this case had you provided that information.

Good luck...

a_c_green · ‎11-10-2017

emerald40 wrote:
So if that is the case how much protection can that be because the signer can just deny it is his signature.

It doesn't matter who signed it, because Signature Confirmation only requires that any adult at that address sign for the item; it does not have to be the addressee. (Restricted Delivery requires that the addressee himself sign for it, but Signature Confirmation does not.)

All they need is a squiggle on record to show that some carbon-based life form at that address took in the package, and to prove that it wasn't just dumped on the porch.

Ref: https://www.usps.com/ship/insurance-extra-services.htm