Potential problem with Promoted Listings impressions!

[zamo-zuan]

I've been collecting information about what could be a potential problem, and thought this would be a good time to try to get some awareness out there of a potential problem.

I'll start off with some images, as images could describe a situation better than words can:

As you can see, as of September 3rd promoted impressions have suddenly taken a dive.

To explain, the blue bars are "Organic Impressions". Meaning the how often your items are appearing in search when buyers "naturally" search for you.

The green part of the bar are "Promoted Impressions", which determine how often you're appearing in your Sponsored/Promoted listings.

It seems the organic (natural) traffic has not experienced any change, but overnight there was a drop of Promoted Impressions!

Who is being affected:

Most of the sellers I know are in Motors, so up until this point I've only found other sellers in Motors who have been encountering this issue. That is partly why I am posting here; if you find you are experiencing this issue, please reply to this post and let us know what category you're selling in! Just because I haven't found this on other categories, does not mean the issue isn't happening elsewhere!

Do Trending Rates help?

It doesn't seem trending rates cause any differences for this issue.

eBay's stance:

Until this point, eBay has not given any official word on this. There's no way to tell if this is truly a bug, or a change they made, or if it's intended. I have asked the forum mods on here last week, and they had not replied. I have reported this issue to phone CSR's, and they have not received any updates from the tech team yet.

Might this also be the natural ebb & flow of eBay, or the current situation our country is in?

That does not seem to be the case. As you can see above, the organic traffic (the blue bar) has been 100% stable through this time.

This means the same amount of buyers are searching now as they were prior. The primary difference we're seeing here is for the promotions only.

This suggests, at least for this specific problem we're facing, that it is not a natural ebb & flow or economic situation. If it were, the organic traffic would have decreased. This would have also shown in the conversion rate, rather than impressions, as impressions are appearances in search, conversion rate are purchases.

Organic traffic being unchanged is hard evidence that buyers are still searching just as much as they were prior. Whether they buy or not is a different question, but that would be altering conversion rate, not impressions.

Furthermore, the change happened literally overnight, on a Thursday which is the date that is traditionally the day of the week eBay does their changes. 

Could this be some type of penalty or punishment? 

I've checked with eBay to make sure we have no penalties or punishments on our account, and they've said we have none. Furthermore, it seems to be category wide, so it doesn't seem to be any sort of penalty, unless if a penalty is somehow applying to the whole category.

Which type of listings seem to be the ones targeted by this change?

Sadly, due to changes in eBay's traffic page, this is IMPOSSIBLE to tell. 

EBay's traffic page does NOT allow sellers the ability to sort by impressions. It does NOT allow you to sort by ANY value other than "Quantity Available". And it does NOT any  longer allow you to save a spreadsheet/report of your information.

So due to these changes, there's absolutely no way for us to research the problem ourselves and find out exactly what listings are being targeted.

We're 100% reliant on eBay to figure out this one, sadly.

Might they have changed Sponsored Listings somehow for this drop to make sense?

If that were the case, it would likely mean that peer rates would have more or less weight in the new system. That doesn't seem to be the case.

Furthermore, any changes to the Sponsored Listing system which decide which listings appear in search, would mean the Sponsored Impressions would naturally move elsewhere. So far, this seems to be a drop across the board of this category, from what I've seen. As mentioned, I don't know if this is hitting other categories, but if you are experiencing this PLEASE let me know.

Why do I suspect this may be a bug: 

1) As mentioned on the phone by an eBay rep, losing impressions for Promoted Listings not only hurts seller profits, but also helps eBay profits as they are entitled to the trending rate for promotions.

2) Organic impressions are unchanged, while promoted listings are much lower. This raises the question: "Where did all the impressions go?" as it doesn't seem to be a shift in who's receiving the traffic. It seems the promotions just *poof* and vanished. 

3) Sponsored Listings are still showing on the search pages, but have some MAJOR issues. I have a Video linked here to display example what I mean. You can see here, some doubles ARE showing up in the Sponsored Listings section. Not only are they duplicates, but the price seems to be wrong on some of the Sponsored search results, and some of them report "Free Shipping" when the item was NOT free shipping. I searched down the page for additional listings so you can see multiple times on a single search page had this problem.

4) So far, this has been category wide across Motors > Parts & Acessories. But this problem has NOT been observed outside of this category. 

5) One person who I discussed this issue with was also selling in Motors, but was not in P&A. Rather they sold items such as wax/etc. They reported that they DID have this problem at first, but the problem resolved for htem over the weekend of 9/5. Considering it was fixed on that category, suggests it may be a problem that was not yet fixed on our category. Or at the very least, some changing/experimentation is going on.

6) It's likely that issues that would cause such a drastic change in impressions, and therefore changes in sales, would have some sort of warning from eBay. Not to say eBay doesn't change things that could alter your impressions (they do often). But if it were intended for Sponsored Impressions to go from 281,000 to 35,000 overnight, they would have likely informed sellers. 

7) Motors > Parts & Accessories is one of the biggest selling categories on eBay. It simply serves no logic that eBay would WANT impressions to drop for such a large category! And that's assuming we're the only category this is happening to. I've yet to find out if there's others being targeted by this problem! 

What do I hope to achieve with this post and/or what can I do to help?:

I have reported this issue last week, and eBay has been direct with us and said that their queue for tech support is based upon how many reports they have of this problem, and he mentioned something about there still being a follow-up on the case, so that means the report was still in queue. 

In other words, unless the people who are experiencing this problem are able to discover it and report it, it may not be fixed any time soon.

This means it's of the utmost importance for us sellers to check if you're experiencing this problem, awareness is the first step! Then if so, make sure to report it to eBay! I would also appreciate it if you could post here as well, including the category of products you sell in, as any information we could provide eBay about exactly what the problem is could hopefully help in getting this issue resolved as fast as possible!

As mentioned earlier, again I have to stress that one of the biggest problems here is with the changes to the traffic page, we are 100% reliant on eBay to figure this one out. They took away the tools that would allow us to go through our inventory and find out which listings exactly are the ones that lost Promoted impressions. 

Thank you and wishing all the best of luck on eBay. Hopefully we figure out this problem and get it resolved, or at least get an official response, as soon as possible! 

[valueaddedresource]

@overstock-discount-products  that looks like the Sales section under Performance.  Traffic should be the next section down on the drop down menu under that. 👍

[redmodelt]

How does this compare to last year or year before? Isn't boating season over till next year, maybe spring when folks might be getting ready for summer?

[valueaddedresource]

@redmodelt  - there is one seller who has posted here that is in boat parts, most others in the Motors categories who are experiencing this sell automotive parts & accessories, including the original poster.  Both boat and auto parts can be found in sub-categories under eBay Motors> Parts & Accessories.

As far as it being seasonal: 

A.) That would likely affect different Motors sub-categories differently. Car parts and accessories very likely don't follow the same seasonal trends as boat parts.

B.) that would also likely be reflected in changes in organic listings as well - less people in general searching for things that are "out of season."

At this point there are dozens of sellers across various sub-categories of eBay Motors>Parts & Accessories who all saw this dramatic drop starting on or about the same day and only affecting promoted listings impressions.

Some other sellers in non-motors categories are reporting similar things, so it doesn't seem to be limited to just one category, but I think it is interesting/important to note the consistency of this issue for those who are reporting experiencing it within one particular category like we are seeing with Motors>Parts & Accessories.

That is not likely to be a coincidence or something naturally occurring like seasonal trends or economic shifts.  It suggests either a glitch or purposeful algorithmic change of some kind.

[zamo-zuan]

Looking at those graphs, what I'm noticing is the one with lesser impressions has a larger promotion bar.

This suggests the way this system is working, is it's limiting the promotions at a FLAT amount.

Also, upon further testing, it DOES seem to now be related to the amount spent on promotions. I have more to say on this issue, but that's a much lengthier topic that I don't have time to work on right now, but I'll follow up with wehn I have time!

[zamo-zuan]

When Promoted Listings was very first implemented, it was heavily tied to how the user spent. I put in a lot of feedback these first few months on the feature, as this introduces it's own problems. It's a poor design, is not sustainable, and is VERY BAD for customers as the price goes up for them with the customers receiving nothing in return.

For years now since then, 1% was enough to give you a solid amount of visibility, with the additional spending just being "bonus" visibility.

Based on what we're seeing here nowdays, you're directly being LIMITED by the amount of spending you do. As shown in the other users screenshots, it seems to be a flat amount you're being limited at (rather than a percentage). In other words, if you want that promotional visibility, you better be ready to spend at or near the peer rates to receive it.

In other words, it's basically making the same mistakes they made when this system was first introduced. I thought (and had hoped) they learned from this when they did it the first time. But here we are again...

As mentioned, I'll write up more on this once I have time as to the problems with this type of design!

---- 

Also, this definitely isn't related to seasonal changes. If you look at the organic impressions, this shows the same exact amount of users are still searching for these items on eBay. The only difference is how much visibility you're getting based on promotions. And if you set it to the peer rates, suddenly you'll get it back.

In other words, again as displayed in the other users screenshots, eBay is putting a flat limit on how many promoted impressions you can get UNLESS you switch your rates closer towards their peer rates. 

[nuclearomen]

@zamo-zuan mine are same happening, I made a thread on the Managed Payments board  can check it out there (if your in MP and requested access to the private community), and I am not in auto category, I sell mostly vinyl records: https://community.ebay.com/t5/Managed-Payments/Sales-Still-Suffering-This-Maybe-Why/gpm-p/31233556#M... 

[valueaddedresource]

@nuclearomen  thanks for adding your report here too.  Interesting, also happened at the same time others are reporting.

I have to wonder how long eBay will let this go on before they acknowledge all of these sellers and give specifics of what the heck is really going on here.

[nuclearomen]

---

@valueaddedresource wrote:

@nuclearomen  thanks for adding your report here too.  Interesting, also happened at the same time others are reporting.

I have to wonder how long eBay will let this go on before they acknowledge all of these sellers and give specifics of what the heck is really going on here.

---

I reported the problem (again) today, we found it when I was on the phone last week with EB MP rep who connected me with EB Sales Team to see what was going on - we found the promoted listings issue and they said basically nothing as to WHY it was happening or to as HOW to get it fixed... I called again today and made them submit a ticket to tech support...there is Nothing we can do, this is entirely controlled by ebay and their systems to promote listings, the issue maybe internal with the US-64 campaign *that is the campaign all my listings are in.  As you can see, my charts are EXACTLY like the OP's on this thread.. even the same date it started

[blacktopautoparts]

You guys are at least seeing an "Our Take" in the Sales (last 31 days) widget. I don't even get that in mine. My impressions have corrected themselves, but I am having an issue with conversions. I've tried several different things this past week and when I thought sales were going back up again, today we are in the worst shape we have been in a longtime in terms of sales. It almost feels like a weekend day it is bad compared to where we have been at.

Zamo is correct, for years since they implemented Promoted Listings people were able to get away with doing the 1%. On our end we never went that low very well knowing that eBay expected a higher percentage for sales. Things were working fine up until September 1st.

The last several weeks I have done some crazy stuff and I'll post it here with promoted listings to try and see if it would help, and it has not helped at all. There has to be something else that they also changed along with the Promoted Listings. I have tried doing a 20% one week and another 30% a week after that with the single rate. All it did was lift impressions, but didn't help at all with the conversions. I even did some high adjustable rates and that doesn't seem to be helping at all. I am not quite sure what else they have changed here

[nuclearomen]

---

@blacktopautoparts wrote:

You guys are at least seeing an "Our Take" in the Sales (last 31 days) widget. I don't even get that in mine.

---

actually no, to get that you have to go to an entire different area/thing.. it's through a link ebay sent me on Aug 17 with the title "make the most of Promoted Listings by optimizing" and goes to a site titled Online Acquisition where it gives you top 5 listings that could use optimization and a link that says "edit campaigns to adjust rates" that is where that second chart is from...however, that is useless, you cannot adjust anything in a campaign that is entirely up to ebay and the campaign works/promotes listings. 

I promote all listings at 1%, however, and even Ebay Sales team told me this last week, promoted listings are not designed to sell all your items through the promoted listings, they are designed to draw traffic to that listing and from there to draw traffic to your other listings/store... ebay never expected promoted listings to sell on a extremely high percentage rate cause they know both sellers and buyers will just leave and shop elsewhere because prices on sellers end are adjust to pay for that percentage, and there is only so much a seller can charge on an item til buyers just laugh and leave. This isn't just due to promoted listings percentages seller raise prices for FVF's, shipping, shipping supplies...etc... 

There is something obviously wrong with the campaign, for it to affect sellers the same way and on the same date. 

[nuclearomen]

---

@blacktopautoparts wrote:

The last several weeks I have done some crazy stuff and I'll post it here with promoted listings to try and see if it would help, and it has not helped at all. There has to be something else that they also changed along with the Promoted Listings. I have tried doing a 20% one week and another 30% a week after that with the single rate. All it did was lift impressions, but didn't help at all with the conversions. I even did some high adjustable rates and that doesn't seem to be helping at all. I am not quite sure what else they have changed here

---

Adjust the elected percentage rate will not do anything, it's the promotional campaign itself, how it is "working" and apparently it isn't, everyones impressions fell between Sep 1 and the 3rd from thousands down to approx 2,000 and have remained that way since... percentages only elect the amount ebay gets if item sells on that promoted listing (not the normal listings)

[nuclearomen]

@zamo-zuan @valueaddedresource  @blacktopautoparts 
Ebay may have heard sellers, looks like the promoted listings are going back up, have to keep looking daily to know for sure...

[valueaddedresource]

@nuclearomen just to clarify, is that still with just a 1% Promoted Listings ad rate?

[nuclearomen]

---

@valueaddedresource wrote:

@nuclearomen just to clarify, is that still with just a 1% Promoted Listings ad rate?

---

Yes, it will never change, I will never give more then 1%, profit rates have been shrinking as it is between fees and shipping (I do free shipping, that of course isn't free, it's added into the total price of item) - in general sales for me on promoted listings equal between 1-5 a month, nothing huge from the cut, but promoted listing work to serve traffic and I just looked at my listings on seller hub and I have noticed my views/watcher counts are already moving up, 2 watchers on a newer item up over a week had zero watchers and not many views to suddenly over 100 views with 2 watchers gained today. 

[valueaddedresource]

@nuclearomen awesome, thanks! Glad to see you are seeing some good news there.  Hope everyone else here starts to see it too. 👍