Picture Usage

[3576betsyd]

Yesterday, I got into a conversation with another seller via messaging about one of their auctions they had that was using my pictures of the same item. My pictures are ones I took, not stock photos or photos from other websites. Below is the conversation we had, but I figured I would ask my question here above the quoting - Can you use someone else's pictures without permission?

When I asked him to remove the pictures, he replied:

I'm sorry but I recently researched this issue with ebay. Once you upload your pictures to ebay they become part of ebay's catalog and anyone is allowed to use them. I actually called ebay myself a few weeks ago to question this about one of my pictures being used and they specifically advised me of this. I've been selling for over 15 years and just learned this last month. Good luck to you.

To which I replied

Please remove my pictures, as I have contacted eBay previously in the past and they have ended those auctions. I too have been selling for over 15 years, and I understand about using stock photos but these are my pictures on my table with my background and MY item.

I figured I would reach out seller to seller first before contacting eBay.

BTW, from eBay's own support pages:
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-policies/images-text-policy?id=4240

If you're not using content from the eBay product catalog, you should use your own when creating a listing. If you're using someone else's photos, videos and text, make sure you have permission from anyone that has any rights to that content.

You never asked permission.

Thank you

He has since removed the pictures, but still swears it is OK to do this:

Yes I know your frustration. I only started using other photos from other sellers a few weeks ago when ebay told me I could. I had a Disney Parks dress taken by myself in my own home and another seller put the same pic up. I called ebay and asked them and they specifically told me this. I was very surprised myself as I always thought it was copyright issues and they said no those pictures are now part of ebay's catalog and free for anyone to use. You may want to call them to ask them this yourself as I didn't believe it myself until I called.

I'll use another picture and replace yours now as I see you are upset and I don't want to do that. But please research this and I'm sure you will be as surprised as I was about the picture policy. It is good to know info moving forward with selling.

[maxine*j]

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@3576betsyd wrote:

I understand about the eBay product catalog. Based on that, I guess my question is, if my photo is not one chosen by eBay to be used in the eBay product catalog, then does another seller have the right to go to my auction and copy my photos.

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Yes.

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[maxine*j]

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jasmen@ebay wrote:

Hey @3576betsyd I wanted to jump in here to just give some clarification! Basically unless you own copyrights on the photo anything that's posted on the internet can be screenshotted and used. The only way eBay can enforce anything and step in is if you own the rights.

We do encourage sellers to use their own photos for sure. If you don't take pictures of the actual item you're selling then it can open the door for a return very quickly. You're more than welcome to reach out and ask them to change it, which you did and that's great. However there's no way for us to force it without the documentation. I hope that helps clarify things! 😁

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One owns thre copyright at the moment of creation.  No further ado.  No filing.  No registration.  Those rights, in whole or in part, may be transferred to others, as happens under the User Agreement with eBay, for example.

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[froggyjump]

I can certainly understand why you'd not want others to use your pictures. I am guilty of this but do it in a different fashion so we are not competing against each other (unfair since he did the work). I take photos from Ebay to use on other platforms. BUT FIRST I ensure this seller is not selling this item on that platform.

It's been a wonderful time saver. I also crop them a bit differently so it's not as obvious. Amazon uses one photo (or more) for a listing so that may be why EBAY changed some years ago to allow photos to be exchanged amongst each other.

[heckofagame]

So once a pic is posted to eBay, that transfer occurs and eBay gives permission to anyone that wants to use it?

[releasethekraken_1]

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@heckofagame wrote:

So once a pic is posted to eBay, that transfer occurs and eBay gives permission to anyone that wants to use it?

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Only on eBay. The copyright isn’t being turned over, just limited usage rights.

[a_c_green]

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@heckofagame wrote:

So once a pic is posted to eBay, that transfer occurs and eBay gives permission to anyone that wants to use it?

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It would appear so. If it's in the eBay "catalog" (wherever the heck that is), they're giving you explicit permission to use it. If it's not in the eBay catalog, only visible in someone else's listing, they will discourage its use (unless you get permission for it) but it's apparently not an outright violation of policy.

In the past, you could report such copying and even get the offending listing removed, but I don't think that's true any longer. I occasionally had problems with Chinese listings using my own photos of vintage used bicycle parts that they could not possibly actually possess, and eBay was pretty good in yanking those as soon as they were reported, though they were pretty obvious scams anyway.

More recently I have had sellers copying my text, which is also tacitly allowed by eBay, although I get some quiet satisfaction in knowing that the text they copied is rarely an accurate description of the piece of junk they're trying to sell. Schadenfreude and all that. 😈

[jasmen@ebay]

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@3576betsyd wrote:

jasmen@ebay Thank you for replying, I do have a question concerning what you said. How are you defining copyrights, as if I take a photo of an item I own and is in my possession, on a unique and identifiable table, with a unique and identifiable background, that should qualify as copyrighted, correct?

The other seller in question was noticed by a friend and fellow seller who saw their photos being used by this person, up to and including photos with their hand in the picture, and saw one listing with my photo, which is noticeable based on the table I am taking the pictures on. Would their pictures that include their hand holding the item be counted as "copyrighted"?

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@3576betsyd you would need to go through the legal process to copyright them. You can then register with our Verified Rights Owner team to take action on anyone using photos you own the rights to. I can't give legal advise but if you do a quick Google search you can see some easy ways to get started if you'd like, but it's totally up to you.  

[house*of*paws]

Hi @3576betsyd 

The bottom line is that eBay used to enforce certain written policies in the past that it no longer bothers to enforce in the present.  I presume it's because they don't want hire the employees it would take to look into the numerous complaints they get on the subject. 

'Invalid bid retractions' comes immediately to mind ... as well as 'plagiarizing other sellers' listings'.

You can see 'human nature' at work in your conversation with the other seller ... who developed an 'If you can't beat 'em ... join 'em' attitude after discovering their own listings being copied.   ☹️

It's not 'right' ... but it seems clear the position eBay is currently taking.

[popblox]

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@froggyjump wrote:

I can certainly understand why you'd not want others to use your pictures. I am guilty of this but do it in a different fashion so we are not competing against each other (unfair since he did the work). I take photos from Ebay to use on other platforms. BUT FIRST I ensure this seller is not selling this item on that platform.

It's been a wonderful time saver. I also crop them a bit differently so it's not as obvious. Amazon uses one photo (or more) for a listing so that may be why EBAY changed some years ago to allow photos to be exchanged amongst each other.

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I think some items are fine to use with other seller images, especially if it's something that could be considered a "stock photo". Most of these images can be found all over the internet - Amazon, WalMart, etc. I believe the OP is referring to images that are unique to the seller and don't exist outside of eBay.

Sellers shouldn't steal photos from other sellers for so many reasons, the most obvious of which being the fact that the item in the photo isn't the item they're selling. This isn't some kind of strange request for this sort of platform. Using another seller's photos on Etsy or Mercari is prohibited and strictly enforced. 

eBay changed the policy because they didn't want to pay employees to mess with it and they didn't want to lose money by taking listings down (especially not listings with great photos that happen to be stolen). 

[singular-source]

This seller is a complete "Bleep". 

[abfabvintage]

I had same happen to me. Piece of vintage pottery. Even copied all of my Item Specifics including my personal Inventory number ABxx, all my measurements, everything. That is how I found it with my inventory # which I put in all of my IS. This whole cluster is mainly due to people using "sell one like this." And even some of my seasoned ebay seller friends do it, too.

When it happened to me, I politely wrote to seller, she said she was new, apologized, deleted it. And no way this "in the ebay catalogue" holds true as true vintage doesn't have UPC, or any other ID that would put it into their catalogue. It is just plain stealing and laziness. Why bother to even own a camera, you can just steal the data from others.

[maxine*j]

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@heckofagame wrote:

So once a pic is posted to eBay, that transfer occurs and eBay gives permission to anyone that wants to use it?

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According to the User Agreement it does.  As I said, rights are transferred in whole or in part.  In this case, the right to certain usage on eBay is transferred. 

If you sell a story to a magazine, say, you transfer certain rights of publication to the magazine but not all of your rights to publication.  The same if you sell a book to a publisher.  Do you think Random House owns the movie rights to John Grisham's books?  Hardly.  Why do you think writers have agents? 

=

[singular-source]

Don't take others pictures, it's completely immoral, regardless of the rules.  Why would you want to anyway?  Deceiving the buyer...

[3576betsyd]

jasmen@ebayThank you again for the reply. I am honestly just trying to understand the policy as I understand that if eBay chooses my picture to be part of the product catalog, then anyone can utilize it, and I understand that; but if not chosen, then another user should ask permission to use it.  I understand that eBay's user policy would mean the picture surrenders it's copyright status if eBay uses it for the product catalog. However, when I look at https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-policies/images-text-policy?id=4240 , I see it as agreeing and disagreeing with both sides of this discussion and not very straight-forward.

According to another poster in this thread, based on the information at copyright.gov and Google points to it as well, the U.S. Copyright office:

When is my work protected?

Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

Do I have to register with your office to be protected?

No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work.

I would look at that to read as soon as I take the picture, and post to a time stamped auction (time stamped as to when the listing begins), it is created and fixed in a tangible form that is perceptible and does not need to be registered with anyone.

[lightlily_arts]

The problem using pictures from eBay's catalog is that they might not accurately represent the product you are selling.  Books are a good example due to condition issues.    I would rather use my own pictures so they can see any and all flaws.   I had an item that I had sold and I was looking for more of them.   I found my  pictures that I took and complete text on another website.  I was wondering how they could sell them at such a phenomenal price until I realized it was a fraudulent website.