eBay

2jspawn · ‎02-13-2019

Long story short we sell a laptop to a buyer locally. They ask if they can buy direct and we say no must follow eBay/Paypal rules on keeping the transaction on the the sites.

Buyer comes in checks out laptop, makes payment and sends us a message via ebay confirming pick up and off he goes.

Paypal decides they don't like the look of this transaction and open an unauthorized transaction. We respond to this case immediately and confirm this was a local pick up and there is no tracking. Paypal keeps the case in review until the 11th according to their case history log (really today the 13th when it's processed). They reversed it. THEY REVERSED A CASE THEY OPENED. Buyer did not even get contacted according to their history log.

We call today and basically get gaslighted about not responding. The first rep literally used the reason for reversal as us not responding to the case. I told her that we did and that we were checking the case daily, always in review. Nothing else for us to respond to. I also got the rep to admit they initiated the case and that the buyer DID NOT and wasn't even contacted. They told us we should ask the buyer to resubmit payment. I asked why should we be put in a vulnerable position they put us in. What if the buyer decided to use the opportunity to not pay up?

Asked for a supervisor and was basically told all the same things. I lose it after more gaslighting and stupid logic used on us. Asked for someone else and got hung up on after being on hold for approx 10 minutes. Total time on call 1hr 34 minutes.

I can't believe Paypal thinks this an acceptable resolution to this case.

ittybitnot · ‎02-13-2019

I can't believe Paypal thinks this an acceptable resolution to this case.

Acceptable resolutions are often the ones that leave PayPal without a monetary loss. Unauthorized Use transaction require proof of shipping for seller protection. You don't have any. You lose.

This is why it is advised to get "cash in hand" for local pick up items. We understand that ebay requires that PayPal be selected in order for the listing to go live. Neither the Pal or eBay have any risk here.

I have a feeling that the "managed payments" program is going to be worse. The terms for that mention no sseller protection for anything, much less "unauthorized use" chargebacks.

castlemagicmemories · ‎02-13-2019

I'm so sorry. I know you shouldn't have to, but hopefully if you ask your buyer to repay, he/she will. If not, there is always the BBB.

goodluckselling · ‎02-13-2019

So if I am reading your post correct,

it sounds like you have this item listed at eBay
You told the buyer both you the seller and they the buyer have to follow eBay policy and this is happening through the eBay message system?
Local buyer comes into your local shop and decides to buy the item and submits payment through Paypal and picks up the item?
Then sends you another message through eBay messages confirming they have paid and picked up the item.

Are these events that happened before the Paypal case was opened?

Good Luck Selling!

orangehound · ‎02-13-2019

@2jspawn wrote:

Paypal decides they don't like the look of this transaction and open an unauthorized transaction.

Like all financial organizations these days, there are triggers that cause an account to be flagged for potential fraud. It doesn't mean it is fraudulent, just simply that there is risk.

@2jspawn wrote:
We respond to this case immediately and confirm this was a local pick up and there is no tracking.

We call today and basically get gaslighted about not responding. The first rep literally used the reason for reversal as us not responding to the case. I told her that we did ...

Something is missing from this. In the cases I've dealt with PayPal, the interface tells me whether or not it is waiting on information from me ... was there some sort of information that they were expecting but didn't receive?

@2jspawn wrote:
They told us we should ask the buyer to resubmit payment. I asked why should we be put in a vulnerable position they put us in. What if the buyer decided to use the opportunity to not pay up?

It seems to me, at this point, that the next step would be to try to get the buyer to resubmit, as frustrating as that might be ... if the buyer does not, or doesn't respond, then you would need to appeal the case decision and plan on more time on the phone with PayPal.

threshold.sales.group · ‎02-13-2019

OP, that's terrible.

Have you reached out the buyer? Especially since it's local. I'm sure by now they know about the reversal and if they're honest they should simply repay. If they refuse you always have the small claims court route.

One reason why I'm skeptical of cc companies and etc opening disputes on their own without knowledge of the buyer is that in many cases it could easily result in buyer being dragged into court or having a collection agency sicced on them. Not all businesses will play ebay nice cookie jar when they get defrauded.

2jspawn · ‎02-13-2019

the guy paid as soon as he was satisfied with his inspection. He messaged us via the same laptop he was buying. He logged into his eBay account and messaged us. I'm not sure if the payment was before or after the message. It was pretty much back to back sequence of events.

Please keep in mind that he did not initiate the case, Paypal decided to stick their nose in the transaction and declare it unauthorized.

Lucky for us the buyer seems receptive to taking care of this issue but why should he or us have to do anything at all. They caused all this and are now putting burdens on us to prove this is above board. Not impressed with their handling of this. Makes me rethink all local pick ups. I have been pretty cautious about this type of transaction but usually with common sense and asking the buyers to match the name on account it leads to good results in shooing away shady characters and facilitating good transactions.

They really got me mad when the "SUPERVISOR" in an accusatory tone asked why we hadn't called prior since it was a high value transaction, when I was refuting their claim we hadn't responded to them. I told them that's not how it works, we reply to the request on the site. Since when is it necessary to call when the case is in review and no status is given that they need seller response? Those employees were trash.

ersatz_sobriquet · ‎02-13-2019

I list nothing for sale on ebay via local pickup because ebay insists that paypal be an option of payment which leaves me unprotected.

ha_5992 · ‎02-13-2019

Please keep in mind that he did not initiate the case, Paypal decided to stick their nose in the transaction and declare it unauthorized.

____

I've made literally hundreds of local transactions with PayPal. Never once have they decided they didn't like the looks of it. Your buyer is playing you.

2jspawn · ‎02-13-2019

I think you're wrong. You normally see the buyer is the one who opens a case on the history log. I've never seen different that i can REMEMBER.

I don't know what your experience is but I can say that just because you've never had this experience that it's not possible.

IF you read the whole of my posts you would have read that the PAYPAL customer rep and supervisor both admitted they (paypal) initiated the case without EVER contacting buyer(as would have shown in history log). Without knowing any factors in how much money it was for (paypal risk) or knowing anything about this specific buyers life and potential irregularities in lifestyle (maybe snowbirds are a huge part of our population in South Florida) you are not informed enough to know what is or isn't happening.

goodluckselling · ‎02-13-2019

@2jspawn wrote:
the guy paid as soon as he was satisfied with his inspection. He messaged us via the same laptop he was buying. He logged into his eBay account and messaged us. I'm not sure if the payment was before or after the message. It was pretty much back to back sequence of events.

Please keep in mind that he did not initiate the case, Paypal decided to stick their nose in the transaction and declare it unauthorized.

Lucky for us the buyer seems receptive to taking care of this issue but why should he or us have to do anything at all. They caused all this and are now putting burdens on us to prove this is above board. Not impressed with their handling of this. Makes me rethink all local pick ups. I have been pretty cautious about this type of transaction but usually with common sense and asking the buyers to match the name on account it leads to good results in shooing away shady characters and facilitating good transactions.

They really got me mad when the "SUPERVISOR" in an accusatory tone asked why we hadn't called prior since it was a high value transaction, when I was refuting their claim we hadn't responded to them. I told them that's not how it works, we reply to the request on the site. Since when is it necessary to call when the case is in review and no status is given that they need seller response? Those employees were trash.

Thanks for the confirmation. Let me just say I am trying to find a solution or an explanation to your issue. You mentioned the buyer after inspecting the laptop also basically immediately made payment through paypal and also sent another message through eBay message system saying they have picked up the item.

From your description of the events, it not does sound like they actually purchased it on eBay? Yes they paid through paypal but the actual transaction does not sound like it took place on eBay? Does this sound correct?

Since you are communicating through the eBay message system the transaction needs to be completed on eBay.

My guess is your eBay communications through the eBay message system was a red flag for eBay to send Paypal a warning about an possible offsite transaction between these two eBay users and when the payment came through Paypal detected it and started there case against the payment. Which caused this serious issue you are dealing with.

Good Luck Selling!

2jspawn · ‎02-13-2019

No way would we do that. The whole of the transaction was conducted and completed ON eBay and Paypal. They purchased the laptop on eBay and finished by paying on Paypal. No part of this was offsite. We are very strict about that.

goodluckselling · ‎02-13-2019

@2jspawn wrote:
No way would we do that. The whole of the transaction was conducted and completed ON eBay and Paypal. They purchased the laptop on eBay and finished by paying on Paypal. No part of this was offsite. We are very strict about that.

Okay. That explains things better. That is why I was trying to be specific to the path of events I asked in the questions.

So here is another possible scenario that I can think of. If you have used that laptop for any part of your eBay business and the buyer also used the same laptop to make the purchase and payment, perhaps that was the red flag for Paypal.

Can they actually link these kinds of events together? I do not know and I am only trying to find a reason why Paypal would suspend your account because nothing else you have shared seems to make sense for them to take this action.

This is a security detected action based on the fact that the buyer was not involved, so I think if you could get in touch with Paypal security and ask these kinds of questions, hopefully it will lead to an answer.

Good Luck Selling!

2jspawn · ‎02-13-2019

I think what it comes down to is Paypal being risk adverse to this transaction because of the nature of this buyer.

It seems to me that they shifted any POTENTIAL risk away completely. They didn't want it. They didn't even let us carry that burden.

The risk was ours alone. We were willing to accept the risk should the BUYER be a scammer. Paypal knows they only do seller protection on trackable items, yet they are so risk adverse to fraud they completely booted this legitimate transaction. They opened the case themselves and didn't like the odds. Why? Who is making this decision once the human eyes and logic get involved.