Paypal aiding and abetting fraudulent buyer chargeback, and so possibly does the Bay

[magicmuzaofart]

I sold a Macbook laptop through ebay for $420. it was an international sale (I'm in US, Buyer's in Japan). The buyer has a 0 feedback. I think nothing of this and ship the laptop, as I got paid via paypal through the ebay sale. the laptop gets delivered in 15 days (all tracked) and on the same day paypal opens a dispute for an "unauthorized charge and then closes this charge in buyer's favor in 7 days, all unbeknownst to me, as I was not checking my paypal account, only the ebay. the ebay is silent on the issue, showing no dispute, as the buyer went around the ebay, directly through paypal. I am an occasional ebay seller and only noticed this scheme just today. Due to the bloody virus, both the ebay and the paypal call centers are closed. so I have written to the both asking the both companies how did they possibly let this kind of exploit pass through their system, and, unless, they are an accomplice to this fraud, they should aid me and return my funds promptly.

I do not know what the outcome of this will be, but I am prepared to go all the way to the small claims court with both these companies, if I have to, as this is a matter of principle to me now.

Has anyone had a similar experience with buyers initiating a chargeback through paypal, overstepping the ebay return process? What sort of luck did you have in fighting this fraud? If you were successful, how did you win?

[cream_couture]

I've had buyers do chargebacks a few times over my years as a seller. I have won every case. As long as you shipped to address provided in paypal, you are covered. You can email paypal if you can't get through to them. eBay can't help because the buyer went to paypal or their credit card. 

If you log into paypal, go to "Tools" and then "Resolution Center" you should be able to see the status of the case. If it is open, you can ask that Paypal review and enter information there (that you shipped to the provided address and add tracking number) If it is closed, I believe you can appeal.

[slippinjimmy]

First thing, this is a PayPal issue, don't waste time or energy chasing them.

Unauthorized Use claim are generally an easy win with PayPal. I've had a few over the years, PayPal has always sent me emails when the claim is opened and again before the required response time ends.

If PayPal really didn't notify you (don't know how you prove that) you have a chance to appeal.

I've always received notices and always could produce proof of shipping so I've never lost a dime on a PayPal claim of that type.

[magicmuzaofart]

So far, paypal is telling me in essence to go f myself: "But if the time frame is crossed and we do not have the option to reopen the case." The original sale was on 5 of February 2020, and the paypal case was opened on 20 of Feb, closed on 27 of Feb.. Today is 19 of March 2020.

[mobley120]

"Small claims court"

I don't know about pay pal but any and all disputes concerning eBay will be resolved by eBay and the complaint through eBay,s arbitration system, in which is a provision in their TOS, and such can be read therein their TOS. And that provision is legally binding unless one notified eBay (within 30 days of their original signup) by written correspondence stating that they choose to opt-out of that provision.

Anyway, that's my understanding by reading their TOS.

[magicmuzaofart]

That is what my understanding regarding the ebay's TOS is as well. That is why I am surprised that there still apparently is this fraud exploit that paypal and ebay have done nothing about, judging from what the previous commentators stated. At any rate, so much the better: instead of one small claims case, I will file two - one against paypal, and one against the ebay.

Looking at this case logically:

-- Have I ever made an "unauthorized charge" in my entire history of use on this account? - No.

-- Once I got a cleared by paypal payment for my eBay listing and no indication of fraudulent scheme from paypal was it not my obligation under both ebay and paypal rules to ship the item immediately? - Yes.

-- If there was a problem with the buyer's payment 15 days after the payment was made and verified by paypal, is it not the paypal's responsibility to make certain that the paypal is insured against such risks? -Yes.

-- If an accusation of an “unauthorized charge” is brought against the seller is it not the responsibility of paypal to inspect just the basic facts of the case, such as how was the transaction made, was it possible to make an unauthorised charge, was the actual merchandised delivered – Yes.

-- Was it even possible for me to authorize a charge in this particular transaction – No.

Ergo, this case for an unauthorized charge brought against me by paypal has no merit and must be reversed.

[mobley120]

I agree with you, and furthermore, in my opinion, eBay,s TOS seems to have been written in Russia and or China, for its contents are flat-out un-American... I wish you the best of luck and I will surely watch this thread.

[cream_couture]

Because you didn't respond initially to the case is probably why you are having trouble getting Paypal to take action. Paypal customer service center is still open, according to their website, it just says they have limited staff so hold times just might be long. I just called to check and the message says they are still taking calls. Try 1-888-221-1161. If you don't want to wait on hold, then email them (again) as fact based and clear as possible. Send them the tracking number. Get a screen shot of the delivery confirmation information ASAP because after awhile, the tracking number will no longer show the tracking history. You can even have the tracking history emailed to you if you used USPS.

Another option - Did Paypal take the refund money from your bank account? If so, you can try to contact your bank to dispute the refund. I would also send the buyer an invoice in Paypal to have them repay for the item. I would put in the invoice that the item shows as delivered and that they need to pay for it.