mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
Regards,
@slippinjimmy wrote:
@no_zero369 wrote:Hey thinking about various scenarios associated with returns and came up with two questions of clarification today:
1. Can a seller just refund a buyer using PP for an item that arrived broken and seller doesn't want back without the buyer opening a return and without getting a defect?
2. Can that transaction be cancelled to get FVF refunded without getting a defect?
It has been stated on this board by eBay staff that any refund over 80% without an associated entry in the resolution center can trigger a defect.
If the buyer opens a return and you refund there is NO defect plus you should get your fees refunded as well.
This is correct. I might just add that it is NOT mandatory that you have a cancellation or return claim in place, but it is STRONGLY suggested / recommended.
Ebay may or may not give the seller an OOS defect if they refund the buyer for the majority of the purchase or all of the purchase. Sometimes completely outlining to your buyer in an ebay email will prevent this from happening and sometimes it won't. It is a risk.
No defect happens on a claim unless the claim is escalated to Ebay and ultimately ruled in the favor of the buyer. However Every single SNAD filed, properly or improperly counts against a seller in the Service Metrics.
@siayan wrote:When PayPal and eBay were connected a refund through PayPal would reflect directly on eBay. Even after they separated they were still connected and a defect could occur even if refunding on PayPal.
It has been said on this board that people have refunded on PayPal without any connection. The link may be broken now. I don't expect an announcement if it has been. Anyone have any feedback from a PayPal refund.
The link is not broken. Not unless they are just having a special issue at this time. The two sites are still updating each other with payments, refunds, tracking, etc. Just as they always have.
@no_zero369 Many others have replied to your item 1. ... as to item 2. Buyer have to request a Cancellation, they cannot cancel on their own ... however, that is an action taken PRIOR to shipment and the Seller if asked by the Buyer can select the reason "Buyer requested" ... in that case the Seller will get their FVFs credited back to their account.
My opinion on # 1. is to process a return request, pay the return shipping then process an insurance claim with the carrier upon receipt of the item. The claim process keeps everything above board and is handled in a way eBay can monitor and you will get your FVFs back from eBay when the claim is completed. We just did this on a $ 169 item with $ 32 in shipping (ouch is right!) and now will process an insurance claim in hopes of recovering something ... but, its the cost of doing business.
Better safe the sorry ....
@no_zero369 wrote:2. Buyer have to request a Cancellation, they cannot cancel on their own ... however, that is an action taken PRIOR to shipment and the Seller if asked by the Buyer can select the reason "Buyer requested" ... in that case the Seller will get their FVFs credited back to their account.
OK, not doubting you, I just looked on some OLD sales in Seller Hub>Orders>Paid & Shipped. Below to the Delivery Date is Sell Similar with a drop down menu and one of the sections is "Cancel order." Maybe I'm jousting at windmills, but find this curious. [true the choices are OOS, Seller requested & buyer address]
My opinion on # 1. is to process a return request, pay the return shipping then process an insurance claim with the carrier upon receipt of the item. The claim process keeps everything above board and is handled in a way eBay can monitor and you will get your FVFs back from eBay when the claim is completed. We just did this on a $ 169 item with $ 32 in shipping (ouch is right!) and now will process an insurance claim in hopes of recovering something ... but, its the cost of doing business.
So again I'm thinking generally. What happens if item was not insured or was too low cost to mess a return? What if the buyer took a flier and under packaged the item? In those cases, the buyer may not want the item back. So is the returns process, therefore, required? I thought of these scenarios as I am sure you have seen my advise that when a return happens the seller is going to lose money and how much depends on the action the seller takes or doesn't. So IF it isn't cost effective to pay for the return, then not sure why it would be mandated?
I think in your last paragraph you meant "Seller" not "Buyer" (red), no problem. Also, I read your reply to "mam" and you made a good point basically asking the question "where" is all of this written down in eBay Policies ... which have changed over time anyway so I am not sure if they spell out every single situation that can occur. I agree that at a certain point it is more cost effective to let a Buyer keep an item rather then incur the additional shipping cost to have it sent back.
True that nothing is mandated but certain actions come with pros and cons and those posting are sharing from their knowledge, experience and flat out opinion based on how they see business should be conducted. I tend to err on the side of caution and if a few extra bucks keeps me off "Home Office's" radar then for me its worth it. Some posted that eBay will read correspondence and make a decision on whether or not a 100% (or 80% or higher if memory serves) PP Refund warrants a defect on the Seller's account or not. eBay Team Members on some subjects have even stated they take the individual account's history in to consideration when making certain decisions, yep, they've made that kind of statement on their Weekly Chat. And of course you will not find that verbiage in their Policy to my knowledge. My opinion, if this is the first time a full refund through PP was issued and there was correspondence between Buyer & Seller that eBay can review and that it was agreed to then most likely nothing will happen. But again, that's just my opinion. However, and this IS something eBay has stated, ANY Refund at ANY time on a transaction gets flagged because they think there MAY be a problem with the transaction. I make frequent Partial Refunds prior to shipment for shipping cost reduction, eBay has told us to make sure we send a note to the Buyer stating that being the reason for the small partial refund. I am sure they have bots that check messages like that for keywords like "shipping", "postage", etc. so people don't have to actually go and read about it. So in the case of the Full refund, bots may look for words or groups of words and they may be as simple as "agree to refund", "keep the item", etc.
Now, as far as the pull down menu selections that includes Cancel this order, I think a lot of that is just boiler plate programming that carries forward after a sale. Once a Buyer pays for something and receives it, to me, there's nothing to cancel, now it is a refund and or return to get the Buyers $$ back to them and the item either returned or kept by the Buyer. However, and I seem to recall some threads where Sellers simply Refunded 100% through PP but still had to go back to eBay and "Cancel" the sale but not sure if they get their FVFs back or have to submit a request for them. What I do know is if proper process is followed Seller gets their FVFs fees automatically refunded to them.
So I don't get it. eBay encourages buyers and sellers to work things out jointly.
I don't believe this is any longer true. Just my point of view, but I don't think it holds true since they changed how the return system is designed for a couple of big reasons.
We use to have a way to communicate inside the claim with our buyers. While I see this occasionally, it is no longer offered on most returns filed that I have seen.
The other reason, the bigger reason for me is that Ebay now strongly recommends that a buyer open a claim whenever there is an issue with a transactions. This was NOT Ebay's position before the Service Metrics started and this new and disaster of a return system. But in an effort to support the Service Metrics, Ebay now wants all issues that a buyer has to result in a claim against the seller. Ebay does still encourage us to resolve the claim before it gets escalated, but claims are being opened when one just doesn't need to exist.
Ebay, before the prep for the Service Metrics to start, use to encourage us to work WITH our buyers to resolve matters that may arrise. But no more. Now they prefer a claim would be opened first. It doesn't matter if the buyer wants to open one, it is Ebay's position they should before a seller try to resolve an issue with a buyer.
It sounds like posters are stating that eBay gives defects for PP refunds outside of the resolution center?
They can and they do from time to time. Not always. But it can happen on a full refund or one that is close to being a full refund.
Can someone help me find this in the guidance for sellers/policies?
I'm not sure there is one. There may be, but it may be an unwritten rule. And just because it may be unwritten, does not make it any less a rule. I would encourage you to go and read through the Weekly Chats of February. At least two weeks in a row this was a hot topic on the thread. I was quite vocal as were others. This may help give you a better understanding of Ebay's position.
So how are service metrics effected for returns that follow the process? (% of returns, per category)
If a SNAD is opened, no matter the reason or outcome, it counts against the seller in the Service Metrics. There are NO exceptions. Even if a buyer were to open a SNAD, realize they made a mistake and then close it immediately. It would still count against the seller in the Service Metrics.
However, the Service Metrics does not kick in until a seller has 10+ SNADs in any one category for the eval period. And the eval periods are the same as they are for your Dashboard Evals [however the Dashboard evals are completely separate].
